John Frieh Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Ya, there is a disconnect for retail....any retail. The CUSTOMER is always right. Once you forget that your business is on the way to the grave. Enjoy the ride "It's not the consumer's job to know what they want." Steve Jobs Quote
rob Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 what's wrong with saying cocksucker? COCKSUCKER! Quote
genepires Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 the customer is not always right. The majority of the time, they are wrong but that is what consumerism is profiting on. If the customer was right with every purchase, we would not have the choices available at the prices either. Why the hate for Eddie cause he said a "bad word" on stupid cc.com? He is human so why not cut him a break? Like you all are perfect. Let he who is perfect cast the first stone. oh yeah.....COCKSUCKERS! Quote
featheredfriends Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 This is an interesting read. Some where retail has decided to "define" how their products are used and by whom. Somewhere? It's always been this way, but not in the way you describe it. We see all manner of customers come into the shop, from the original poster, to very experienced climbers buying pins for their bail out kit, to guys wanting a rope and harness to clean their gutters. We hear it all, and if something raises a red flag ("I'm gonna just tie this rope to an exhaust vent on my steeply pitched roof and hang over the edge to clean my gutter") it would be simply irresponsible for us to not say anything. Retail customer has every right to bitch about their personal experience. Absolutely. And I have the privledge of shopping where I prefer......which is generally some place other than where the management or sales staff uses the word "cocksuckers" in a public forum. Correct there, too. I was replying as a guy who cares about this place in a manner more appropriate for around a campfire. My apologies. And the local retail stores wonder why they lose sales every day to the Internet. Actually I don't wonder why, I have a pretty good idea. But that's a WHOLE other thread. Ya, there is a disconnect for retail....any retail. The CUSTOMER is always right. Once you forget that your business is on the way to the grave. Enjoy the ride Here I completely disagree with you. The customer is sometimes wrong. It's how you find a way to resolve the conflict that separates a good, sustainable business from a bad one. For example we won't take used climbing gear back no matter how right a customer thinks they are. And an even faster way for a business to go under is having the management throw their employees under the bus. You want to climb something on Index that requires a pin and a hammer not only am I happy to sell you what you need but tie in with you to use them. May be not everyone's game but just how hard was that people? Harder than you might suggest Dane, I see it all the time. Good on you for taking new climbers under your wing, but that's getting to be more and more of an exception rather than the rule. There are lots of climbers out there that are learning from books and the internet rather than having a good mentor to show them the how's and why's of climbing. Raindawg, for example, happened to be the first guy to show me how to use a belay device and was the one who took me on many of my first climbs. For that I'll always be grateful. In the absence of that kind of apprenticeship, who/what is left to steer a new generation of climbers? Urban Climber Magazine? The dudes behind the desk at the gym? Angry, politically loaded comments at cc.com? Arrogant shop guys? It's a tough question for sure. Anyways...no one ever wins on the internet. I just wanted to share our side of the story. Thanks to everyone who supports us - we try our best every day. Somedays we fall short, some days we do good work, but at the end of it all we just wanna be in the mountains like everyone else. Quote
OlympicMtnBoy Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Since this has turned into a Feathered Friends bash, I just want to share that in general I have always had GOOD experiences there. Feathered Friends has often had things in stock that their neighbor across the street didn't, sometimes had better prices, and generally been friendly. I even had someone spend a good 45 minutes with me once helping to fit a pair of boots that I had not even bought there! And yes, I did tell them that first, and I bought a pair of footbeds afterwards. I also appreciate the numerous slide shows, gear nights, free beer events etc that they sponsor and that they support this very forum/website. Do I want to snuggle with every person there in a giant group hug, probably not. Did someone maybe not do the best job in terms of customer service, maybe so. I don't do my best job 100% of the time either and sometimes I come off as a jerk too. Thanks Feathered Friends (and Eddie)! - Stewart Quote
ZimZam Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 guess, since we started in 1972, we have a few years under our belts of not being c@#ksuckers. Sweet! And I have the privledge of shopping where I prefer......which is generally some place other than where the management or sales staff uses the word "c@#ksuckers" in a public forum What Dane said! You meat munchin' moralists need to lighten the fuck up. Quote
wdietsch Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I was replying as a guy who cares about this place in a manner more appropriate for around a campfire. My apologies. apology accepted ... carry on Quote
Dane Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Some how an opinion becomes bashing. I suspect Mark and "Feathered Friends" now have similar feelings about the same encounter. Quote
genepires Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 bashing is just an expression of an opinion. the original post was an opinion and a bashing. turn around is fair play. Quote
mattp Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I had somebody who has never climbed a mountain before asking where to go for gear advice in preparation for next summer's Rainier climb and I suggested Feathered Friends along with a couple of other local shops where she would get good advice. Parrotlet may have had a bad experience and there are other shops he can buy gear from but I doubt he's going to find that any of them are consistently better at providing what he said he was looking for on that particular day: specialty gear and information about how to use it. There are a few other shops I mentioned along side Feathered Friends, but they are certainly an excellent store and Feathered Friends is worthy of our support, among other things, because of all they contribute to local climbing outside their actual retail business. They were the first to get on board with the recent Index fundraising campaign, for example. Quote
olyclimber Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Mark, I think OlympicMtnBoy has some good advice for you. Clean aid is a worthy thing to pursue. Raindawg, your rant is a total strawman. Damage from pins, not bolts, were what drove the original clean climbing movement. I wouldn't expect you to champion the driven steel, but perhaps your stance is merely anti-bolt rather than pro-clean-climbing, eh? Last May I got to climb in The Valley for a week and did Serenity Crack, the poster child for pin scar damage, for the first time in over 30 years, and I'd sort of forgotten just how shocking the damage is. The year before I'd done The Nutcracker for the first time in a similar length of time, and was surprised to find pin scars on a route that was notable for being established all on nuts. Pins do much more damage than bolts. word Quote
olyclimber Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Feathered Friends supports this site and as Matt mentioned, they have stepped up to support the Index Fund as well. They have definitely been a positive asset to the Pacific Northwest climbing community. They also make some killer gear and retail some pretty good stuff as well. Its always possible to have a bad experience in a retail shop. If you had a bad experience, I'm sure that the shop would love to hear about it directly. Quote
olyclimber Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I care. You came to buy gear and you got an unsolicited lecture. Same dude would probably sell you loads of hangers, quick draws and drilling jive to use for damage wherever you dang well please! I find it's best to do your own research before you go into a shop. There's no guarantee that "the guy in the green vest" or whatever has any useful knowledge or experience (unless he's the owner of Pro Mountain Sports). I know of at least one Feathered Friends manager who is registered on this site. Hopefully he'll read this and respond on or off-line. you'r commenting on unsolicited lectures?? W T F! now i have heard just about everything!!! It has been a while since I read something so funny here... Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Hey FF: My Volant puffy is falling apart...after 26 years of severe abuse. I have four of FF bags - awesome. They're made here, so any mod you want, half zip, color, whatev, no problem. Bought a down hood and they put snaps on my old trashed FF Volant and a new Mountain Hardwear parka (sorry FF...REI basement deal)...free of charge. FF is old school...and I like that. Oh, and for the School Marms here, Big Man Wu has a message for ya... Quote
ivan Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Oh, and for the School Marms here, Big Man Wu has a message for ya... speaking of dudes who really know how to run a shop (and how best to feed the pigs when the customers get too mouthy) Quote
zeroforhire Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Fwiw... I, and friends I have sent to feathered friends have received nothing but fantastic customer service. It is refreshing to see a company that actually cares about the community they cater to. Obviously no one is perfect, and mistakes are made, but as a whole, I have found feathered friends to be a great resource to our community. Quote
Frankazoid Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 This is an interesting read. I likely know the sales person pretty well. I know the original poster too. I have seen and had similar conversations here with Eddie @ Feathered Friends when we mutually disagreed in a generally friendly manner. Seems to me there is a HUGE gap in communication left untouched. Some where retail has decided to "define" how their products are used and by whom. Retail customer has every right to bitch about their personal experience. And I have the privledge of shopping where I prefer......which is generally some place other than where the management or sales staff uses the word "cocksuckers" in a public forum. Call me old school. And the local retail stores wonder why they lose sales every day to the Internet. Ya, there is a disconnect for retail....any retail. The CUSTOMER is always right. Once you forget that your business is on the way to the grave. Enjoy the ride Hey Mark, I own more pins than FF and REI combined has on the wall. You want to climb something on Index that requires a pin and a hammer not only am I happy to sell you what you need but tie in with you to use them. May be not everyone's game but just how hard was that people? This isn't 1972, nor did it take place at the JC Penny makeup dept. Customers, like others have said, are not always right. Climbing shops should be above, or different from the status quo of a normal retail enviroment, because of what the products used for. Thanks for being a stand up shop, Featherd Friends and Staff. If you want to buy pins without somebody giving a shit what they are used for, or without the help of knowledgable staff then buy 'em across the street at REI. Quote
Choada_Boy Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 From 2010 AINAM: "Fall on Ice - No Experience: In February, two inexperienced climbers in their early 20s (never climbed ice before) signed out boots, crampons, and ice tools from the demo people at the annual IMCS Mount Washington Ice Festival. They bought some used ice screws and headed for Cathedral Ledge. Witnesses stated that they looked shaky at best as the leader headed up the pitch. At the third screw placement, the leader fell, leaving both tools in the ice. The second lowered him to the ground and untied him. With some leg injuries and a cut face, they headed for the hospital. Climbers reported the axes, rope, and screws were left in the ice. The demo people went to Cathedral and retrieved their gear. Boots and crampons were returned after the hospital visit, and we returned the ropes and screws to the climbers." Quote
billcoe Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hey Mark, I own more pins than FF and REI combined has on the wall. You want to climb something on Index that requires a pin and a hammer not only am I happy to sell you what you need but tie in with you to use them. May be not everyone's game but just how hard was that people? There ya go! Can't buy that kind of thing (usually). I'd take him up on that offer! Quote
nhluhr Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 I received excellent product advice and customer service today. Thanks for the Drifts Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Sounds like allot of chickens and geese have to die so this place can stay in business. Probably more enviromentally friendly to sell pitons....just saying. Speaking of which, I think my new A3 route on the lower wall might get a name related to this whole fiasco...Hammertime or some such, because I'm just begging for some loud mouthed salespeon to try and kick my ass since da weather hasnt been to condusive to free climbing! Quote
ZimZam Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Oh, and for the School Marms here, Big Man Wu has a message for ya... speaking of dudes who really know how to run a shop (and how best to feed the pigs when the customers get too mouthy) That was one of the best shows on TV. Those cocksuckers lol. Quote
rob Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I just wore my FF puffy to ride home from the Stumbling Monk, and it made my life better. I was so toasty I was giggling. Best $$ I ever spent. Thanks FF!! Quote
kinnikinnick Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I just wore my FF puffy to ride home from the Stumbling Monk, and it made my life better. I was so toasty I was giggling. Best $$ I ever spent. Thanks FF!! sure it wasn't the strong belgian ales that made life better, toasty and giggly? Quote
xhen Posted February 25, 2011 Posted February 25, 2011 I was by FF for the first time a few weeks ago. I'll usually buy from REI cause it's like leasing gear. Return something for something else. They didn't have the crampons I wanted (Sabertooth Pros) and I knew FF would. Sure enough. I ask a few questions, got great service, walked out with some 'pons. I also bought a BD nut tool and asked at the register if I could go pound it into a crack at Index. That got a laugh. My brother ordered a bag and got excellent service. Props to FF. If I had more money, I would've been browsing the sale a bit more... Quote
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