Choada_Boy Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 And a White Water Raft Guide! They fucking RULE! Just ask them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crillz Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 i think it'd be a feat for some of todays cutting edge alpinists to put together a vintage rack and aunsamble and repeat some of the hardman routes in a tribute to those that pioneered the way Or... For some of the old hardmen to come back and climb some of today's cutting edge routes with a vintage rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 First, when has Exit 32 ever NOT not been a Circus? When I first climbed there, you could count the number of bolts on two hands and still have fingers left over. We literally had the place to ourselves. It was quiet. There weren't many trad routes to be had, but what was there was fun and face routes could always be top-roped. One day we show up and there's this guy hanging from a rope, prying rocks off the face with an ice axe. It all became very different after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Dane... since it's just a "practice" area, i'm now advocating taking my drill up there to create a line of two finger pockets...you know, to "practice" cuz its a "practice" area and all...no reason to nail up there at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Dane... since it's just a "practice" area, i'm now advocating taking my drill up there to create a line of two finger pockets...you know, to "practice" cuz its a "practice" area and all...no reason to nail up there at all... Sound like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_noggin Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Skisports you are right, you run into some(computer error:I-D-Ten-Tee error) that’s IDIOT at the crag and most of the time they come in droves, it was crotchety old fuck day at the crag for you I guess, when ever this happens move on as quick as possible, like the day I saw so called cowboys climbing in leather soled cowboy boots and cutting loose at the anchors, when approached about there dangerous situation, the reply was we are cowboys and we do this all the time, to say the least we all scattered to another wall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 By the way that was richard_noggin and I there at exit 32. the route is now sent and will be in our new guidebook called "Old School Rules: Climbing for Real Men". as he mentions, this is not for the faint of heart, so you might want to consider how much of man you are before you pick up a copy. we won't be giving refunds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Skisports you are right, you run into some(computer error:I-D-Ten-Tee error) that’s IDIOT at the crag and most of the time they come in droves, it was crotchety old fuck day at the crag for you I guess, when ever this happens move on as quick as possible, like the day I saw so called cowboys climbing in leather soled cowboy boots and cutting loose at the anchors, when approached about there dangerous situation, the reply was we are cowboys and we do this all the time, to say the least we all scattered to another wall! did you tell them, "and take those damn sheep and velcro mitts with ya!" BTW, next time just say "Hi Dwayner" and back away slowly is good advice. LOL! Good luck:-) Yesterday a friend and I went to Exit 32 looking to climb in the 5.10s mainly. Knowing 32 quite well we stroll up to Human Foot the 5.8 on the corner of Blackstone crag. Minding my own business I continue to flake out the rope so Holly could lead. I glanced over to the left of me, only to find myself double taking. Like what hell is going on. I felt I was at the circus. The man was belaying someone in the mid 20s with a dulfersitz, with out hesitating I exclaimed “ Do you need a belay device?” “No”, the man said “I don’t like using them it is just extra weight.” I turned my head shaking going back to what I was doing. At first I wanted to get the hell out of there I thought shit was going to hit the fan soon. Holly started to climb, as she was working her way up the right I took a look at the man's harness. It looked older than my grandfather who passed away in the 80’s. I ask him, “ Do you know who Todd Skinner is?” he reluctantly said, “Yes,” then I pressed on “yeah he died of a harness failure.” He went on to say “I made it myself,” my upchuck reflexes couldn’t keep up with my ears. Eager to move on Holly made it to the top of the climb and I lowered her. I pulled the rope to pink point the fun little 5.8, as I climb up this 5.8 I hear a bantering going on from, well from the father and son combo ekkkk. I dance up the 5.8 the son is still on the 5.9 just to the right of me taking his leisurely time with his father belaying him with a dulfersitz. I just approach the chains to the 5.8 to hear the son yelling, “lower,” then a pause from below. “I can’t I am going to have to build an anchor.” The father yells up. I am at the chains quickly trying to get off the route so I can be at the bottom just in case I need to be a runner or assess the sons trauma. The son then asks to be lower five feet to a small bench and yells down, “off belay”. Before I go on rappel I ask him can you anchor into a bolt. The son looks around and says “no, I am fine.” I gulp and rappel. The father and son are now yelling at each other about how far the rope end is off the ground, with shear luck the kid made it to the ground. Now the father son team start acting like they are packing up, but they don’t. They continue to climb a little more on this 10b top roped, which is the chains that I plan to use next. I start racking up to lead the 5.9 and look down the crag to the north to see this old man pounding in a bong in the crack. No, no, not the type you smoke out of the type you climb with. I don’t know maybe in the 70’s you did smoke out of them, whatever he was doing it was messed up. I ask the father with the messed up harness, “is he with you.” He shakes his head and his eyes open brightly to say, “No”. I look closer now at the man pounding the bong in. At first all I could see was he was setting up an anchor to solo lead this 5.10a. But he had a canvass tarp setup with tricams, knife blades, angles, big wall hammer ect. I ignore him thinking wow I have another oh shit head to the left of me. I normally don’t wear a helmet sport climbing but I put it on just so the father and son team don’t pull the rope on top of me on this traversing climb. The father and son pull the rope respectively as they ask me for permission. I continue up the climb and Holly lowers me down. As I am lowered down, I am staring at this old man pounding in another bong. I walk over to our stuff ignoring the old man at this point still minding my own business. Holly follows the 5.9 because of the traversing nature of the climb. She cleans the draws and gets to the top and yells off belay. I walk over to the old man and introduce myself just to find out what he hopes to do. “Excuses me sir what are you climbing over here?” He responds, “Oh I am going to do this first ascent on this aid line.” I hold my breath in laugher, FA what, yeah right. I take a closer look at his gear now. Yeah, he is serious; I look at this thin seam two feet from climbing bolt lines left and right. “You know this is a sport climbing crag?” I ask him. “Yes’, he answers, ‘but how do you think these climbing routes where put up he asks” I go on, “not by aiding, they are free routes, go to index if you want to go aid climb the rock is crap here and you are just going to ruin the rock,” The old man got uber defensive, “ are you the climbing police what right do you have to tell me what to do. How old are you? I have been climbing longer then you have born.” He adds, When you pound in pin it make new holds.” I exclaim, “Well you have been climbing longer then I have been born, but I am a climbing guide I do this for a living so I believe I know something about this sport,” I say sarcastically. “Well do you have a card or some thing to prove who you are, well it doesn’t matter.” He goes to say. “You don’t even know how to place gear that’s why you are sport climbing.” “Well, I am climbing and having fun clipping bolts I don’t need a rack here. If I wanted to trad climb I would have gone to index. And how many mountain guides do you that don’t know how to place gear?” “Even so the line you are climbing is two feet away from a bolt line how can you call that a first ascent? Go to the Pickets if you want to get a FA.” “But that’s a 4 day hike in just to get there,” he adds. By now both of us are heated and about ready pop. I wanted to knock him. I had to leave and get away before I did something I regretted. The old man continues to yell at me, how about Royal Robbins and Harding how they pined and chopped routes and apologized latter. Trying to ignore him I pack my stuff up and leave to another crag. It was so hard belaying and hearing the hammer pounding away. I shirked in despair. On the way out I asked him how his climb went and his name he refused to give me his name. I thought about this if he thought what he was doing was right why wouldn't he give me his name? I never knew that exit 32 would be so scary to climb at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Skisports you are right, you run into some(computer error:I-D-Ten-Tee error) that’s IDIOT at the crag and most of the time they come in droves, it was crotchety old fuck day at the crag for you I guess, when ever this happens move on as quick as possible, like the day I saw so called cowboys climbing in leather soled cowboy boots and cutting loose at the anchors, when approached about there dangerous situation, the reply was we are cowboys and we do this all the time, to say the least we all scattered to another wall! did you tell them, "and take those damn sheep and velcro mitts with ya!" BTW, next time just say "Hi Dwayner" and back away slowly is good advice. What's a cowboys three favorite pick up lines? My trucks paid fer. I wun my belt buckle in da roe-day-oh. And, I wus really jus tryn to get dat sheep over da fence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 RuMr I'm not advocating drilling, aiding or chopping rocks in a practise area. I am advocating a little respect and mutual understanding. Too easy to be a dick when someone isn't more like you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyleaf Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Sport crags are the best place to learn aid climbing and alternative techniques. Besides, look how much fun it can be! If this was at Index no one would be writing anything on this here site. Such a ruckus. So much fun. Thanks for getting pissed and being my entertainment for a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 fair enuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Everyone knows the best place for whanging in iron and shit like that is at MIXED (drytool practice) CLIMBING crags anyway. Which isn't there one of at Exit 38? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMO Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) RuMr I'm not advocating drilling, aiding or chopping rocks in a practise area. I am advocating a little respect and mutual understanding. Too easy to be a dick when someone isn't more like you Amen... people do things differently. End of story. Look at the difference between european climbing styles and ours. An open mind might actually help us learn something we might not know otherwise. Let me butcher a "quote" by Jim Perrin; Once you think you know everything there is to know, you've stopped your ability to learn. A guide should certainly have confidence , but even so there is always SOMETHING to learn. Edited September 17, 2009 by TMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketparrotlet Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Why is it that you guys get so up in arms to defend some old guys climbing with obviously unsafe techniques, but then shy away like the plague from anyone below 18 for "safety" reasons? -Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Because its your parents who will sue us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 there is time to correct with the youth, for old bastards its best to let nature hew them as it must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Aren't these kind of whack-o arguements supposed to be moved to spray? One guy pissing on another guy's style is just going to raise the dander on a bunch of reasonable folk. Wankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I don't have any problem with style. I do have a problem with hammering bongs at a primarily sport crag. I find it ironic that folks who hate bolts will condone pitons in a place where they are not necessary. Pitons destroy the rock and are mostly irrelevant at cragging sites due to modern protection. And you can rain down on guides all you want but if they are AMGA certified and climb around 200 days per year as most do, they are qualified to have an opinion. Try placing a bong at Smith on something like Karate Crack and the shitstorm will definitely exceed this interweb forum. And WWI and surroundings are not practice areas. Lots of climbers enjoy the site as their favorite kind of climbing. Instead of condoning a different style including homemade harness and dulfer belay and bong placements, why eschew high end climbers who are working on 5.14. It sure as hell isn't practice on Whores of Babylon and other projects under way. And the Blackstone Wall is not choss and at 5.8-5.10 it is superb climbing on very clean rock. I totally respect pope and Dane and Raindawg and others for their history of great climbing and their stubborn traditionalism but climbing has evolved and we can't turn the clock back. Robbins, Kor, Chouinard, Messner, House, Barber, Bachar, Kauk, Graham, Sharma, etc. are or were all great climbers in the way they chose. Peace and just keep getting out there. Alpine, multipitch, sport, at any rating from scramble to 5.15, it shoudn't matter. Live and let live but have fun on your medium and difficulty of choice and respect the rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I agree with some of what you say Matt but you seem to have made the assumption that bolting is not damaging the rock. Or that it is somehow immune to the judgement of future climbers. Yes, anything that damages the rock is poor style to some degree and will be seen as such by future generations. Just as some here are scoffing at this old fart for using outdated equipment and being curmugdonly in general, so too will future generations berate US for not leaving ANY unbolted quality routes within 3 days hike of a road. Why can't he see that no one is using Bongs and generally destructive tactics? Why couldn't they see that there would be alternatives to using Bolts and generally destructive tactics? Same arguement imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Damn, can't belive I am posting in Spray with the unwashed masses Working as a ski guide does not make you a climbing guide. I doubt any fully certified UIAA MTN guide made the original comments. So I'll call BS on the "I am a guide". But feel free to prove me wrong. It isn't about ethics or disagreements in style as some image. It is all about respect. You don't have to be outfitted in the best gear or know the latest techniques to be a good or a safe climber. A UIAA full guide knows that. How much damage can an old fart/ or young kid for that matter do in an afternoon pounding bongs? Ever pounded bongs? The answer is not much.... Lots of ways to approach people and make your own or the areas ethics known without unduly insulting another climber. Safety and age? I generally can trust the rational thought process of someone over 20/25/30. I may not like it but I can trust they are making a good decision from their own experience base. Someone under 18 maybe not so much...under 16 I know there are parts of the equation missing for the decision making. That is just life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 The methane will start to adle you in ten,... nine,... eight,..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I wanted to knock him. I had to leave and get away before I did something I regretted. Very professional, not.....to come to a publicly viewed forum portraying yourself as a "mountain guide" and spewing out that you wanted to "knock him" and leaving before you did something regrettful. Really, now! Are you still in high school???? And oh jee wiz! Maybe someday that "old man" will "see the light" and SPORT CLIMB!!!!! It was so hard belaying and hearing the hammer pounding away. I shirked in despair. Poundin' those bongs probably made a lot less noise than a rap-boltin' jerk with a Hilti. And the "old man" probably went home with his gear, unlike the guy who left his permanent sport-waste affixed to the rock which you so delighted in clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_noggin Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Matt Warfield you’re trying to bring intelligent option to a bunch of CC sprayers with like thousands of posts, that take their blog lesions from Glen Beck ..ie: take unrelated topics and somehow join them into a conspiracy theory, somehow they think if they don’t get crotchety and loudly demonstrate there minority option outerspace and the planet will be grid bolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Dad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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