glassgowkiss Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 read and spray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Really warning about worn biners and the sharp edges that can cut a rope, right? I think it's such a good idea to inspect anything you clip into. However, I'm a very young leader... so I supposed it depends on how "stressed" you are when you're clipping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I think what they are saying is to just slip a rat-tail file in yer chalkbag next to yer toothbrush fer brushing chalk and when you come across this hanging there: Â Â Clip the upper biner and hit the lower one with yer rat-tail file till it's smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Climbing is debased. Â There is a massive rush to the bottom when it comes to introspection, responsibility and general awareness. Climbers can't take responsibility for themselves much less responsibility for inspecting and replacing fixed gear. The only knowledge it takes to clip a fixed draw is how to tie a figure-eight. We even offload the awareness and responsibility of belaying to our Grigris with the trade off being more static belays and a greater likelyhood of chopped ropes. Â It will only get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 brawndo's got what climbers crave!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Climbing is debased. Â There is a massive rush to the bottom when it comes to introspection, responsibility and general awareness. Climbers can't take responsibility for themselves much less responsibility for inspecting and replacing fixed gear. The only knowledge it takes to clip a fixed draw is how to tie a figure-eight. We even offload the awareness and responsibility of belaying to our Grigris with the trade off being more static belays and a greater likelyhood of chopped ropes. Â It will only get worse. Â That's why it's important to learn how to belay using the holes in the lobe of a #4 Camalot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If Ivan has weighted it, retire it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Tragic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Climbing is debased. Â There is a massive rush to the bottom when it comes to introspection, responsibility and general awareness. Climbers can't take responsibility for themselves much less responsibility for inspecting and replacing fixed gear. The only knowledge it takes to clip a fixed draw is how to tie a figure-eight. We even offload the awareness and responsibility of belaying to our Grigris with the trade off being more static belays and a greater likelyhood of chopped ropes. Â It will only get worse. Â Â Prophetic words! ..and I agree. It takes surviving a couple of accidents to cross these bridges of awareness, unless someone is mentored. It helps to be scared/careful/still enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 the fast and light hype applied to inappropriate routes will also cause some interesting reads in accident threads of the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 oh jeezus...you guys crack me up with these prophesies of doom...what, one guy got a rope chopped out of how many THOUSANDS of falls?? Â I routinely pull shite biners off and swap a beater one of mine in. Use your brain, carry on, etc...duh, it ain't rocket science... Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 oh jeezus...you guys crack me up with these prophesies of doom...what, one guy got a rope chopped out of how many THOUSANDS of falls?? I routinely pull shite biners off and swap a beater one of mine in. Use your brain, carry on, etc...duh, it ain't rocket science...    You sound like an engineer. Physicists and engineers bring too much reality to climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Climbing is debased. Â There is a massive rush to the bottom when it comes to introspection, responsibility and general awareness. Climbers can't take responsibility for themselves much less responsibility for inspecting and replacing fixed gear. The only knowledge it takes to clip a fixed draw is how to tie a figure-eight. We even offload the awareness and responsibility of belaying to our Grigris with the trade off being more static belays and a greater likelyhood of chopped ropes. Â It will only get worse. Â That's why it's important to learn how to belay using the holes in the lobe of a #4 Camalot... Â personally i prefer the #7 tricam for this application Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadman Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) oh jeezus...you guys crack me up with these prophesies of doom...what, one guy got a rope chopped out of how many THOUSANDS of falls?? I routinely pull shite biners off and swap a beater one of mine in. Use your brain, carry on, etc...duh, it ain't rocket science...    It is kind of scary though. On a hard onsite attempt, for instance, I never look at the biners on the fixed draws to check and see if they're in good shape. I've also (personally) had a hanger pop off on a crux bolt where people regularly dog and had worked it loose, and a sling cut on a fixed draw where it was rubbing against a rock and you couldn't see the wear. I love fixed draws, but they definitely have some safety issues associated with them. Saying, "oh it can't happen to me, I'm too smart" is just as bad as the doom and gloomers.  Oh, and the hanger coming off and the sling cutting both resulted in ground falls. One from about 25', and one from about 15'. I walked away from both of them, but fuck with my head to this day. Edited October 17, 2012 by boadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You can always switch to alpine climbing where every piece of fixed pro seconds as a musical instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Hardware needs to be of high quality and properly installed and maintained. And fixed draws age and need to be replaced regularly. Â But everybody wants somebody else to do it. We should all take responsibility for maintaining climbs and if not at least respect those that do. Edited October 17, 2012 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Â Maybe this guy was doing a public service? Â [video:vimeo] Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Another example of the debased, thoughtless, entitled nature of the modern climber  Squampton Garbage Dump   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am not for illegal camping and leaving garbage behind, and in no I want to excuse a bunch of dirtbags leaving mess behind. But to argue, that it will somehow effect fish in the river is an utter nonsense. What effects the fish runs are casinos, subdivisions and tree cutting operations. People using fertilizers, oil and chemical runoff (leaking cars) and general deforestation are the REAL causes. So it is a bad form and garbage should not be left, but to argue that it somehow effects fish runs! That argument simply doesn't add up. And yes, it bothers me that people are not using campground, but it also bothers me how much dirt and rock was dumped near the trailhead to Slhanay. It also bothers me that a whole bunch of trees were cut and 50-some houses are going up on Plateau Drive. I also happen to think, that a casino at the base of the Chief is a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am not for illegal camping and leaving garbage behind, and in no I want to excuse a bunch of dirtbags leaving mess behind. But to argue, that it will somehow effect fish in the river is an utter nonsense. What effects the fish runs are casinos, subdivisions and tree cutting operations. People using fertilizers, oil and chemical runoff (leaking cars) and general deforestation are the REAL causes. So it is a bad form and garbage should not be left, but to argue that it somehow effects fish runs! That argument simply doesn't add up. And yes, it bothers me that people are not using campground, but it also bothers me how much dirt and rock was dumped near the trailhead to Slhanay. It also bothers me that a whole bunch of trees were cut and 50-some houses are going up on Plateau Drive. I also happen to think, that a casino at the base of the Chief is a bad idea. Â You obviously know tons about salmon fisheries. Good on you for speaking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am not for illegal camping and leaving garbage behind, and in no I want to excuse a bunch of dirtbags leaving mess behind. But to argue, that it will somehow effect fish in the river is an utter nonsense. What effects the fish runs are casinos, subdivisions and tree cutting operations. People using fertilizers, oil and chemical runoff (leaking cars) and general deforestation are the REAL causes. So it is a bad form and garbage should not be left, but to argue that it somehow effects fish runs! That argument simply doesn't add up. And yes, it bothers me that people are not using campground, but it also bothers me how much dirt and rock was dumped near the trailhead to Slhanay. It also bothers me that a whole bunch of trees were cut and 50-some houses are going up on Plateau Drive. I also happen to think, that a casino at the base of the Chief is a bad idea. Â You obviously know tons about salmon fisheries. Good on you for speaking up. Well, after fishing on a commercial boat in Alaska I think I know a thing or two about salmon fisheries. Also having 4 years of college with forestry major would give me a pretty good idea about general dynamics of eco systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil K Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 "Paging Jason Griffith, paging Jason Griffith." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 What effects the fish runs are casinos, Â I know! The last time I was in there there were all these chain-smoking coho playing the slots when they should have been spawning and dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 What effects the fish runs are casinos, Â I know! The last time I was in there there were all these chain-smoking coho playing the slots when they should have been spawning and dying. and when one whipped on lead, while clipped to the fixed draw, the rope snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I guess I've been paged.... Â Bob's right, though unsightly, garbage in and off itself is rarely a problem for salmon (unless we are talking toxic chemicals). The problem is large numbers of people, and the landscape alteration that typically follows them (clearing of forests, draining of wetlands, dikes/levees, pavement, housing, etc., etc.). You can pretty much figure out which rivers produce a lot of fish from aerial photos. Â Salmon ecology ain't rocket science (thank goodness for me!) Â Sorry for the thread drift..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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