glassgowkiss

Well, the system worked great for this guy, didn't it. Wonder what would you say if it was one of your family members?

Yes it's crap. Look at Coastguard or look at Airport Firefighters. Both are prime examples of services required for specific types of rescues. In both cases the whole system is completely designed from ground up and has nothing to do with normal emergency response. Listen to the soundtrack of 911 call linked above. The dispatcher has no idea, she is not asking the right questions, she basically has no clue to what is going on. It's not the caller's fault, it's the dispatcher, who is not asking right questions. It's lack of training. Anyone working in critical care will tell you that if you are working with missing information is because you did not ask right questions. It's friggin 21 century, time to come out of dark ages. Last Saturday there was a paragliding accident at Saddle Mountain. Pretty sure 100% pilot's fault (I did not see the accident, but saw him taking off- but this is different topic). Heli picked him up in less then 1 hour from the time of the incident. There was pretty easy ground access, but there was a possibility of spinal injury- hence pretty quick heli transport. One would think that a 600ft cartwheel tumble on a slope would raise possibility of spinal injury (besides internal injuries) resulting in need for heli rescue to avoid potential damage to the vitctim from ground transport?

So how much is a human life worth? Because this line of reasoning always puts a price tag on it. So I want to know how much human life costs?

The other way around. If the system stays in place the system will get more and more expensive, and further restrictions will follow. In healthcare you specialize response for a reason- it's more efficient, hence cheaper. There is no difference here.

The question still remains, why these isn't a specialized unit in handling these things? Relying on volunteers is pure horseshit. Volunteers can assist and be a great asset to improve things, but it would be exactly like staffing ED with hospital volunteers and expecting good outcomes. And the fact is, that in field you can't really assess the scope of injuries beyond very basics. I know several Whatcom County volunteer SAR members, and not a single one would be capable of doing any assistance in technical or semi-technical alpine due to lack of fitness and lack of technical knowledge. There is ZERO reason to re-invent the wheel.- just look and copy existing systems in countries, where climbing was established for a long time. Climbing is increasing in popularity, hence the number of accidents will just keep going up. Just by listening to the 911 calls this was purely the case of lack of training and complete lack of even understanding the situation by the dispatcher and Sheriffs. Unfortunately in this country nothing will change, unless there are $$$ we are talking, so probably this lawsuit is the only way to start changing the system. Probably NPS has best systems in place and best training at the moment. The rest of the areas is amateur crap-basically you are on your own! Saying is pure crap. Nobody sane goes climbing thinking "I might die today". Shit happens. Whether it was lack of technical ability in his case or just bad luck is completely irrelevant. Hope that this death would start a process of improvement in the system, when luck runs out or I get over my head.

I think 2 things pop out of this story: #1 Even in a close proximity to civilization (like Mt Hood), within cell phone coverage, you are on your own. Particularly in a case of an accident. Many ski accidents have occurred just outside of ski areas boundaries (like one near Steven's Pass a few years back), when response time is still relatively long. #2 Maybe it's time to have a specialized units (similar to dive rescue unit for underwater search, rescue and recovery) that are just for mountain rescue? That would include specialized helicopter, with properly trained crew. Having seen some of the rescues in the past, a lot of people lack fitness and knowledge in mountain terrain to safely perform rescues in technical terrain, including alpine. In the Alps rescues are done by specialized teams, with specific training, and fitness level requirements are high and rescuers are constantly being evaluated. Reading it, actually there is a pretty good case for this lawsuit. Sounds like the helicopter delay was primary cause for death before reaching the hospital. And to say "shit happens" is simple bullshit. Imagine a road accident, where there is a 2 hour delay with response to an incident, and a person died.

Target is this Friday- May 11. https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Traffic/Passes/NorthCascades/2018ProgressMap.htm

If you have not done it yet, I would highly recommend reading book by Steve Swenson "Karakoram: Climbing Through the Kashmir Conflict". Swenson is Seattle native and one of the best alpinists. I saw his talk tonight at Backcountry Essentials in Bellingham. If anyone plans on visiting Pakistan it also provides a ton of useful info. Buy it, read it, enjoy it.

Actually not true. Canada is among countries with so called "Visa Waiver Program". Basically you are granted 90 day visa at the point of entry. US Immigration do not stamp Canadian passports, but Canadian can be (and on many occasions were) denied visa at the point of entry.

Are you kidding me? Have you read AAJ accident reports?

This nails it. Yes, pretty much the reaction would not be "good job buddy, you are a great pilot", but you "are an idiot and I do not want to be around when you kill yourself".

Unfortunately not the case. 99% of accidents are a series of bad decisions, combined with some some bad luck. I only saw a handful of accidents we can classify as "wrong place at the wrong time". Marc had near miss on Stanley Glacier Headwall a couple of seasons back, where he had a huge class 3 ripper going over their heads. That should have been a wake up call for risk risk assessment. Avi forecast for that day was calling for considerable to high risk, and he still decided to climb in one of the worse avalanche terrain possible. Then he solos a bunch of crumbly rock routes and baits people to beat his day. Insane! Boils down to the fact, that there is a persistent glorification of risky behavior among climbers.

Again, this is horseshit argument, these issues are not binary and not even connected. BTW, Anker-with all his fitness and training suffered MI in Nepal. Even if you watch "Meru"- Ozturk suffered a stroke while on the climb. And that was one of these idiotic moments, where he should be evacuated to a hospital asap and treated properly, but they pushed on to the summit instead.

Of course it's an objective hazard. Each site will have it's own. However you use wind socks, streamers as wind indicators. You can use wind meter, determining turbulence, by measuring wind speed variation. You never fly on lee side, you have to understand Venturi effect. You use instruments that actually show your air speed, ground speed. I have rules I stick to: I do not take off above 12mph and if it's crossed more then 15 degrees. Walked of launches a few times.