cynicalwoodsman Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Load limiters... other than for obviously-questionable placements, are they a must for you on the first, or on the first few placements? Or am I good to go with just draws if the ice is good? I'm not interested in a gear review. I want fall stories. What gear was being used, how were conditions, and what happened? Quote
RafalA Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Haven't fallen, not planning to (knock on wood), and only have about 30-40 days on ice, but here's my take: To me it doesn't matter if it's the first, second or last screw - ice quality is much more important. If a screw hits a (lot of) hollow spot(s), is in questionable ice or otherwise feels iffy, it gets a screamer (I carry 4 - 6, depending). Otherwise, standard or alpine draw, again, as needed. Also, tend to climb pure ice on singles. Quote
Alex Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I clip a screamer to every placement these days, the only time I use slings or draws is on bolts or trees. I fully extended a screamer in one very short fall at Hyalite this season when I pumped out and did a "controlled back down". They zipper very readily and it was actually very cool to see. Quote
Chad_A Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Guess it's different for everyone. I clip screamers to the first few screws, then typically just go to quickdraws (at that point, my rationale is that the half ropes have enough "spring" in them to limit the load of a potential fall). Makes the harness lighter and less cumbersome, too. No, haven't taken any falls, btw. Can't help out there. Quote
genepires Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 depends how many you have. If you only got a couple then you should place them on the suspect pieces. If you got 10, then put them everywhere. The screamers are not that expensive though, so it would be a good idea to load up on them load limiters. Quote
genepires Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I was with Alex when he activated the screamer. He wasn't very far above the screamer, maybe a couple of feet. It was weird that the screamer was fully activated. All the stitching was pulled. Makes me wonder about the utility of a screamer. Seems like a couple of stitches should have pulled but not them all. If this is how they usually work, then any fall over 5 feet would always rip all the stitching and land full onto the extended webbing. My vision of a screamer was that on a big fall, stitching pulls limiting the force over the course of the fall. There would be a couple stitches left and the full peak force of a fall would never be felt by the ice screw. Am I wrong with this concept? Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I had a screamer deploy once, and after it was over both she and I were exhausted. The only thing I can reccommend is maybe some soundproofing, as it can get out of hand, especially if you still live with your parents. Quote
billcoe Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I had a screamer deploy once, and after it was over both she and I were exhausted. The only thing I can reccommend is maybe some soundproofing, as it can get out of hand, especially if you still live with your parents. LOL!!!!!!!!! I was thinking something along these lines when I got to your reply!!!!!!!! Quote
pu Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I recently had the opportunity to take a short fall, about 6 feet total, onto a 13cm Grivel Helix placed in the top of an approximately 2 foot diameter free hanging icicle. I was only 20 feet up and I was trying to get off the little cicle and onto a larger one. I was using a single 9.1 rope. In this situation I felt the screamer was a great idea....and it did its job. I put screamers on all screw placements that are not good. So, basically if the screw is pushing out shavings or a nice ice plug for most of its length then I could go with a regular draw. If it is doing less than that I screamer it. I have six screamers total and that gets me through most routes. I have witnessed a lead fall onto a 22cm screw in bad ice that had a regular draw on it. To my surprise it held. Go buy screamers. They are cheap insurance. Quote
powderhound Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 shorter falls generate more force. The most force is generated on a fall will about 3.5 feet of rope out from the last placement. longer falls have more rope for the force to disperse from. so it makes sense that a short fall would cause a screamer to activate but the longer falls I have seen on screamers haven't. Quote
G-spotter Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I have 6 and they go on the first 6 screws placed, after that it's draws to the top. No lead falls on ice myself but I had a friend lob off onto his 3rd screw, about a 3m fall from about 15m up the 4+ at Moaning Tree Wall back in the mid-late 90s when both tools dinnerplated at once, and the screamer (made by On Sight in Squamish) ripped about 1/3 of the way down before catching him. If he had taken a longer fall or from lower down, no doubt the whole thing would have ripped instead of just a third of it. Quote
OlympicMtnBoy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 I generally rack 3-4 and use them on the first few screws unless I'm sinking something great into really solid ice. I've never deployed one though (use em aid climbing too) and my only real ice lead fall was one an 11cm screw in bomber ice just below my feet (I had run out of my longer screws). It held just fine but I try not to repeat such things. Quote
John Frieh Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 - 40' fall onto chockstone slung with dyneema sling. ~20' above chockstone; 40' in the system so factor 1. Broke all ice clippers in fall. - 15' fall onto 16 cm screw with yates screamer. ~8' above ice screw; ~30' rope in system so < factor 1. Screamer ripped 2/3 way through - 10' fall onto 16 cm screw with BD quickdraw. ~5' above ice screw; ~80' rope in system so < factor 1. Felt screw hit air pocket going in so approximately 2/3 of threads were in ice. - Falls 1 and 2 were onto a single rope; fall 3 was onto a pair of doubles I carry 3 screamers on alpine routes and upto 6 for ice climbing. First screw or two always gets one (unless it's rock gear) and any sketchy pieces along the way. Quote
YocumRidge Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Yes, I took a 15' fall on one of them just two weeks ago on Rainbow falls and the screamer did NOT deploy while it should have. No clues what else did absorb the shock? Life was hard on that funky WA ice! 50' off the ground, 2 screws placed, fell on the second screw (16 cm), led on doubles, clipped separately. Quote
denalidave Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I had a screamer deploy once, and after it was over both she and I were exhausted. The only thing I can reccommend is maybe some soundproofing, as it can get out of hand, especially if you still live with your parents. LOL!!!!!!!!! I was thinking something along these lines when I got to your reply!!!!!!!! Where can I get me one of THOSE screamers? Quote
John Frieh Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 what's an ice clipper? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ice+clipper Quote
Plaidman Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 what's an ice clipper? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ice+clipper Or http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ice+clipper That was fun. Do you have anymore John? Quote
cynicalwoodsman Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 That's what I thought. Just makin' sure it wasn't slang I never heard for pro. Damn... I popped a buttcork readin' these posts. Good stuff. Keep 'em comin'. So everything held in all these falls, yeah? Nobody decked? Posting about stuff that you've heard happened would be cool too. Quote
JosephH Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 In the mid-80's we blew a few dozen of the old school Wild Things Air Voyagers working on a couple of different rock routes with marginal pro back East, most notably putting up 'The Wizard' at Crow Hill, MA. and using hooks for free protection up on Cannon. We adjusted their startup curve by alternately pre-slicing the threads down on a steep diagonal on one hand, and on the other added wraps of sport tape to ones that were blowing too quick. We also sport taped ones that we only partially blew and we'd get another couple of goes out of them. Would have been hard pressed to do the route without them and I still have some of those same Voyagers I use in my rope-soloing anchors. Oh, and Yate's posts their specs here: http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/screamer/use.htm Quote
chubler Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 what's an ice clipper? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ice+clipper That was awesome. I'll use this at work. Quote
cynicalwoodsman Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 Good idea with the tape! I like that ol' stitch plate I see hangin' in the pic. I wonder if its the type of thread, or how it's sewn-up that makes the screamer go. Quote
JosephH Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I wonder if its the type of thread, or how it's sewn-up that makes the screamer go. I believe it's a combination of the thread selection, bobbin tension, tacks/inch and - in the case modern vertically sewn ones - how many side-by-side columns of tacks. Quote
glassgowkiss Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think BD did some testing on the screamers some time ago and basically there is no science behind them, The same way as placing screws at 90 degrees plus makes them more prone to failure. Quote
ColinB Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think BD did some testing on the screamers some time ago and basically there is no science behind them, The same way as placing screws at 90 degrees plus makes them more prone to failure. Do you have a link for that? It'd be interesting to see the data. Quote
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