News poll: require climbers to carry beacons?

[ScaredSilly]

What the lay public does not understand is that in this case the MLU would not have helped unless 1) it had been activated 2) all three people carried them 3) searchers would have been on the spot Friday afternoon.

 

RJ - PBL have come down in cost $300 gets ya one:

 

http://www.rei.com/product/791972

 

 

[MJaso]

True that Rock! I'm much better with math and I know that 87%+12%+2%=101%. What kind of poll is that? I've got a pole for Angelica though.........

 

 

Yes

87%

No

12%

I'm not sure

2%

 

[Off_White]

BTW - avalanche safety trivia: there has never been a recorded avalanche fatality where the victim had had an avalanche cord deployed!! get rid of your transceivers, guys!!

 

I could be wrong, but I thought Willi Unsoeld and Janie Diepenbrock had cords out when they died on Mt Rainier in 1979.

[wdietsch]

just placed my vote (no)... total still reads ...

 

12% conservative ... 87% bleeding heart liberal

[rocketparrotlet]

just placed my vote (no)... total still reads ...

 

12% conservative ... 87% bleeding heart liberal

 

From Oxford.

 

liberal

 

• adjective 1 willing to respect and accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own. 2 (of a society, law, etc.) favourable to individual rights and freedoms. 3 (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate reform.

 

Don't get liberals confused with uneducated flakes...common mistake.

 

I'm in the 12% club by the way, hoping to find a cheap beacon. Most people don't know crap about mountain climbing, sad truth, and they think we're all crazy adrenaline junkies wishing to die.

 

-Mark

[Frikadeller]

So I am wondering, how many of the 87% of those pollers are willing to pay for our 12% need for Beacons? Or hell, never mind the support network to support 87% of climbers with "beacons"....

 

[Julian]

just placed my vote (no)... total still reads ...

 

12% conservative ... 87% bleeding heart liberal

 

From my experience, a good portion of the "Yes" crowd is "hippy climbers wasting my tax dollars!" conservatives.

[kweb]

Its a "no" for me.

 

On a side note, If you read the news reports about the hunter that just lost his life in Spokane, the comments from the public mention nothing about sending a bill to the family, or him going out "in this kind of weather", or that he did not have a locator device......

 

I just read a bit of the Oregon SAR annual report for 2008:

http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/tech_resp/sar_docs/annual_sar_report_2008.pdf

 

Pages 32-35 break down total hours paid (and other info) for each activity (climbing, hunting, fishing, mushroom picking, etc.). Interesting to see that hours paid in:

Motor Vehicles

Other Water

Non Power Boat

Wandering

Swimming

Hunting

Fishing

Suicide

 

All out number hours paid in climbing.

 

Where do we draw the line? Should every person that wanders out their front door be required to carry a locator device?

 

[Frikadeller]

Should every person that wanders out their front door be required to carry a locator device?

 

YES!!! That's the only sure fire way that we can make sure you never ever get into harms way....

 

What do you think of a GPS device that fits in your car, and call for emergency services for you if you are in a accident?

 

 

Oh, yeah.... We already have that..

 

 

[Snowman_Jim]

BTW - avalanche safety trivia: there has never been a recorded avalanche fatality where the victim had had an avalanche cord deployed!! get rid of your transceivers, guys!!

 

I could be wrong, but I thought Willi Unsoeld and Janie Diepenbrock had cords out when they died on Mt Rainier in 1979.

 

I don't know about that particular case, but there have been victims found that had deployed an avalanche cord. Unfortunately none were found very quickly, or alive. There was one case where the cord had been deployed and melted out first in spring, before any other clues.

 

It really wasn't a great idea. But before beacons I guess it seemed like the thing to do.

[Alewarrior]

I am sorry for what happened. My thoughts go out to the family and friends of these fine people.

[genepires]

how about a poll about enforcing every American to have a MLU inseted into their chest cavity, just in case?

[sweatinoutliquor]

I can't stand this crap. The people screaming loudest are so horiffically uninformed. I honestly think that most of them think a MLU is like the little badge thingy worn by star trek people... "okay, looks like jimmy's hurt, beam us outta here"

 

Anyway, I try to leave comments on the news sites, but usually just get beat down by the stupidity. But, I have come up with a solution that works for me, maybe you should try it too:

 

Every time you read the word "beacon", just subtract the "e" and you get bacon. It's much more enjoyable to read about and listen on the news if you hear: "If only these climbers had brought their bacon, we wouldn't be wasting billions of taxpayer dollars on SAR and crashing helicopters every 5 minutes..."

 

It's also fun to pretend that the people shouting about it are the rednecks from south park... "They tuk 'r jobs! (Durk r jrbs!!!)"

[LostCamKenny]

Amidst all the talk about well-wishing and hope for finding the remaining climbers, and the banter about the need for climbers to carry MLU/PLB's I am surprised that there has been little mentioned about those involved in the rescue efforts. PMR, The Crag Rats, National Guard, Clackamas County Sheriff's Department... these people are out there not just in search of the missing climbers but they are in fact out there climbing, themselves. They have to climb in order to save these people and they have to do it in the most demanding conditions with any search starting with any break in the weather or as ground conditions allow. The ground search wouldn't be possible without people like them willing to risk their own lives to bring back a couple. Instead of going on and on about how they should have have been carrying these magic electronic devices advertised to find you for rescuers, these people/climbers put themselves in the same peril as those who became lost and make every attempt despite the media and ignorant non-climbing public.

 

Heroes, they are, and my thanks go to them! I know if my life depended on them that I would want them to know that I valued the job they do - voluntarily! Thanks, guys!

[tomtom]

Amidst all the talk about well-wishing and hope for finding the remaining climbers, and the banter about the need for climbers to carry MLU/PLB's I am surprised that there has been little mentioned about those involved in the rescue efforts.

 

This is cc.com.

[LostCamKenny]

 

This is cc.com.

 

eggs-actly... a place for all things climbing - rescues included.

Edited December 15, 2009 by LostCamKenny

[Plaidman]

Amidst all the talk about well-wishing and hope for finding the remaining climbers, and the banter about the need for climbers to carry MLU/PLB's I am surprised that there has been little mentioned about those involved in the rescue efforts. PMR, The Crag Rats, National Guard, Clackamas County Sheriff's Department... these people are out there not just in search of the missing climbers but they are in fact out there climbing, themselves. They have to climb in order to save these people and they have to do it in the most demanding conditions with any search starting with any break in the weather or as ground conditions allow. The ground search wouldn't be possible without people like them willing to risk their own lives to bring back a couple. Instead of going on and on about how they should have have been carrying these magic electronic devices advertised to find you for rescuers, these people/climbers put themselves in the same peril as those who became lost and make every attempt despite the media and ignorant non-climbing public.

 

Heroes, they are, and my thanks go to them! I know if my life depended on them that I would want them to know that I valued the job they do - voluntarily! Thanks, guys!

 

Ditto x10. These guys and gals rock. Thank you for all your training, time and effort that you all put in to be able to perform the way you do.

Which is outstanding! All the best to all of you.

[Bug]

Avalanche cords were the only thing available in my youth.

We glued ping-pong balls to the ends to give them flotation.

Never heard of any statistics on how well it worked. Just seemed like a good idea.

I have had friends who died or were hurt in avalanches while skiing.

All of them were either Ski patrol or guides checking conditions.

[montypiton]

My apologies to OffWhite and any other who may have corrected me. I'll admit that my trivia piece is pretty old-and that the tidbit was offered "tongue-in-cheek". (an example of my sometimes inappropriate attempts at humor) The claim was offered at the 1983 National Avalanche School, held in Reno. By that time, transceivers had been so widely accepted that virtually noone used cords anymore. Created by the USFS in the '50s, the National Avalanche School was the source of all subsequent avalanche science in the US. It no longer exists, of course, with the need it once met now better met by its many successors.

 

I don't know the details of Unsoeld's burial, but I'd be surprised if he was using cords that late. Skadi & Pieps both had beacons fairly widely available by that time... But Willi was pretty old-school about a lot of things...

 

And Lostcamkenny makes a very appropriate point. I had understood ground search to have been suspended because of the danger to ground based searchers. Say a prayer for any who might still be out...

[basecamp]

As a climber I am opposed to requiring a MLU/PLB.

As a rescuer If we continue to get these highprofile missions during the winter months I would lean towards regulation. It would make SAR's job much easier, and may change the outcome in a positve manner.

 

 

 

 

[Pilchuck71]

As a climber I am opposed to requiring a MLU/PLB.

As a rescuer If we continue to get these highprofile missions during the winter months I would lean towards regulation. It would make SAR's job much easier, and may change the outcome in a positve manner.

I can see the logic in this post and would second it both from the climbers stand point as well as that of a fellow rescuer.

 

Edited December 15, 2009 by Pilchuck71

[pdk]

Rather than outright regulation requiring a MLU/PLB, why not simply require one as a condition before SAR gets involved? If no MLU/PLB signal, no rescue would be organized.

Edited December 15, 2009 by pdk

[Pete_H]

I don't think you'd have much luck getting people on board with a plan that let's people die w/o attempting a rescue because people didn't bring a PLU, or whatever the fuck its called.

[rocky_joe]

Sorry to be blunt, but that is an awful idea. Basing a decision to rescue someone on their choice to carry a transceiver/beacon is a wretched idea, especially when you consider that MLUs and PLBs have been proven to be faulty devices at best.

[Pilchuck71]

I am not a huge fan of regulations.

Especially when it comes to outdoor pursuits.

I do think that there are times when ideas should be strongly urged. Such as the use of PLBs/MLUs on climbs such as Rainer in Winter or Hood or what have you.

I see this as being similar to the Mt Baker Ski Area regs for heading out on the Arm. Beacon,Shovel,Probe, Partner and Knowledge of conditions and Terrain.

I disagree with not initiating a rescue lacking a PLB/MLU. As a rescuer I feel that anyone in need of help deserves the help. What I think the MLU/PLB offers is an increased chance of rescue and hopefully more positive outcomes.