never mind

[G-spotter]

The power of this trip lies not only in its ability to draw a group together, but also to give participants the confidence to step out and face life's challenges head on.

 

Couldn't you just go on a roller coaster a couple times and save $100?

[jon]

Why is not agreeing with someone an attack? I'd be screaming "ATTACK!" at home and work all f'ing day.

 

Maybe we should donate all our old rock shoes to this organization. I think it's great they are getting kids outside and off their PSthingys.

[max]

 

Now I didn't go back and review this gem, 'cause it seems like the OP either came to his/her senses or ran away crying, but..

 

She could ask the FS if the organization has a valid concessionaires permit. I think any organizations that makes money using FS property needs a permit. I think. And I'm not going to get fucking lawyer like and figure this out, this is a discussion (sort of) and someone else can chip in with better info if they like.

[Choada_Boy]

Once upon a time, at a gear shop far away, Layton refused to sell a woman a pair of climbing shoes that she was going to use for walking around in. True story!!

[DPS]

I'm not sure running shoes or gym shoes would polish the rock significantly more than rock shoes.

[Phil K]

I think it's not so much a matter of footwear as "technique." When you put your foot on a hold and it sticks, relatively little polishing action occurs. Put a newb on something that they can't reasonably climb, and watch their feet scuffle, scrape, and slide around. That's how you buff granite.

 

Anyone been on Flying Circus lately? Those hoser guided groups hang a TR on it all effing day long and let their clients thrutch themselves to exhaustion on something they have no good reason to be on. They've ground all that Squamish crystalline goodness down to snot.

 

I've been wanting to rant about that for a while now.

[Drederek]

Whatever they use down at Yosemite sure polishes the shit out of the rock.

[rob]

Joe Brown used to do friction climbs in plimsolls -- Keds, basically.

[AlpineK]

My dad used to climb in the Icicle and I had to tell him everybody uses rock shoes these days. Rock shoes?

[DPS]

Once upon a time, at a gear shop far away, Layton refused to sell a woman a pair of climbing shoes that she was going to use for walking around in. True story!!

Saw a hipter walking around Fremont wearing Royal Robbins rock climbing boots. I'm guessing he bought them at Second Bounce.

[minx]

i hate it when someone posts something; doesn't like the response and then cries foul. yes its cc.com. there are plenty of productive conversations.

 

 

i learned to climb in....keds!!! oh the horror! there was a time when there was no such thing as sticky rubber. people climbed in street shoes and boots all the time.

 

and even worse...i leanrned the hip belay before i learned anything else. my first belay device was an 8 that left me with lots of twisties in my rope. i'm pretty sure that i lived through both of those things.

 

now please forget that i posted this b/c i don't actually climb

[Pete_H]

There's actually people out there who boulder without crashpads too. Without crashpads their feet are touching the ground and polishing the meadows. They must be stopped!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i hate it when someone posts something; doesn't like the response and then cries foul. yes its cc.com. there are plenty of productive conversations.

 

 

i learned to climb in....keds!!! oh the horror! there was a time when there was no such thing as sticky rubber. people climbed in street shoes and boots all the time.

 

and even worse...i leanrned the hip belay before i learned anything else. my first belay device was an 8 that left me with lots of twisties in my rope. i'm pretty sure that i lived through both of those things.

 

now please forget that i posted this b/c i don't actually climb

 

Heal up that shoulder so we can get out! :-)

 

[counterfeitfake]

Anyone been on Flying Circus lately? Those hoser guided groups hang a TR on it all effing day long and let their clients thrutch themselves to exhaustion on something they have no good reason to be on. They've ground all that Squamish crystalline goodness down to snot.

 

So true. And where will the next generation of 5.8 leader go to tick a 5.10a?

[j_b]

Although it doesn't strike me as a significant problem in Icicle Creek, polishing from use is an issue on softer rocks. "It's what we used to do" doesn't appear to be a particularly compelling argument, since technological improvements should be encouraged to conserve the resource and climbers still managed to use the most appropriate boot for the job. In turn, users may have their own valid reasons for using whatever foot gear they decide but having newbies climb in whatever street shoes speaks mostly to the poor quality experience this outfit appears to provide their customers.

[G-spotter]

Since REAL CLIMBING involves Piton Craft i'm offended these young kids weren't being taught to whale baby angles into lost arrow scars at Roto-wall.

[Pete_H]

It seems like whenever you'd go down to Classic Crack on a busy weekend there'd be throngs of gapers attempting to thrutch up the route and inevitably sliding down in failure. Which is why the lower 10 feet of the route is, indeed, polished.

 

Now, though, I rarely see people on the route. I think with the development and hype of so many short, easy and friendly face climbs beginners have spread out at places like Playground Point and such.

[minx]

I want to be perfectly about my response above.

 

I don't think that climbers should ignore and not use improving techniquest and equipment for safety.

 

I'm opposed to the snotty attitude of the original poster.

 

It also should be said that teaching kids to hip-belay as a back up isn't inherently unsafe. During an incident with a gri gri at smiff that I happened at smiff when I was climbing with a group of friends, a hip belay was employed to protect the climber until we could switch the gri gri with an ATC. Glad that a few of us had been taught the hip belay.

 

as for climbing in street shoes...it may not be the best for the rock but its not inherently unsafe.

 

Don't take a holier than thou attitude and then be surprised when people don't rush to your side.

[yasso1am]

So true. And where will the next generation of 5.8 leader go to tick a 5.10a?

 

Have you climbed that thing lately? I don't know, maybe before it was polished it felt like a 5.8, but the last few times I've climbed it, it certainly required effort normally reserved for routes above 5.9, regardless of footwork.

 

Just my two cents.

[Jason_Martin]

I'd like to take a moment to defend YD Adventures. I have had the opportunity to work with YD's lead rock climbing instructor. He has taken two AMGA SPI recertification exams from me (passing with flying colors both times) and is actively involved in the Mount Erie climbing committee. It is my experience -- through the knowledge of this individual -- that this is a conscientious organization that cares about the areas where they operate.

 

I don't know the instructor on site, but know that he was trained by their lead instructor. The lead instructor has demonstrated that he meets industry standards on two occasions with me. So I can only assume that the group was operating well within the best practices of the industry.

 

The lead instructor called me to ask about my opinions on the original poster's observations. As such, it's clear to me that regardless of the validity of the original concerns, YD is taking the criticism seriously and is actively contacting professional guides and guide services to see what they do...

 

To me, this last point shows a pretty high level of professionalism...

 

Jason

[sobo]

...YD is taking the criticism seriously and is actively contacting professional guides and guide services to see what they do...

 

To me, this last point shows a pretty high level of professionalism...

I would have to agree.

[rob]

I have some spare keds I can send them. I want to see more kids outside.

[olyclimber]

i feel stupid and contagious

[billcoe]

I'd like to take a moment to defend YD Adventures. I have had the opportunity to work with YD's lead rock climbing instructor. He has taken two AMGA SPI recertification exams from me (passing with flying colors both times) and is actively involved in the Mount Erie climbing committee. It is my experience -- through the knowledge of this individual -- that this is a conscientious organization that cares about the areas where they operate.

 

I don't know the instructor on site, but know that he was trained by their lead instructor. The lead instructor has demonstrated that he meets industry standards on two occasions with me. So I can only assume that the group was operating well within the best practices of the industry.

 

The lead instructor called me to ask about my opinions on the original poster's observations. As such, it's clear to me that regardless of the validity of the original concerns, YD is taking the criticism seriously and is actively contacting professional guides and guide services to see what they do...

 

To me, this last point shows a pretty high level of professionalism...

 

Jason

 

Ummm, glad they are so pro-active and agree with your last point as well. I do think folks would need to check that hip belays were being adequately taught. That's the only criticism I think which might (or might not) hold water. I do not believe the OP's statement, or that any guide would be doing a hip belay incorrectly, but will add that in the alps, shoulder belays are still utilized to this day.

 

I guided for many years for a couple of organizations, and was just stopping due to having kids about when the AMGA was being established. My buddy got certified, but I passed on it. Having seen the process of certification evolve over the years, I am 99 percent certain that you or the guide service do not have to worry what an anomys internet poster thinks. Us internet people just generally tend to be full of crap.

 

However, the guide service might consider (if they have not done so) doing a review of former clients. Call or otherwise contact them, to check in and see how they are doing: what was right about their experience with you, and what could be improved (if anything). Feedback is valuable on many levels, and the service might get some referrals out of the deal as well.

[billcoe]

i feel stupid and contagious

No need. Go see a doctor or go to the clinic. You can get shots to fix that drip ya know:-)

 

 

jus' sayin'...