Hell NO on I-1098

[rob]

This amazing thread might need some old school.

 

 

if by oldschool you mean posting pictures of fat-assed transvestites or of hepatitis-infected plastic surgery victims, please don't.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

This amazing thread might need some old school.

 

 

if by oldschool you mean posting pictures of fat-assed transvestites or of hepatitis-infected plastic surgery victims, please don't.

 

[Hugh Conway]

Free market airports baby!

[tvashtarkatena]

Note how that POS went to the Alpine Lake section to mine a quote out of context...

agreed - lame - but the quote/counter-quote/counter-counter-quote jerk-off cycles all ya'll tend towards are warning signs enough of Deep Mental Instablity

 

The work involved. I don't get it, either. Addictions should be easier than that.

[j_b]

but the quote/counter-quote/counter-counter-quote jerk-off cycles all ya'll tend towards are warning signs enough of Deep Mental Instablity

 

If you bother having the discussion at all, you might as well answer to the point and make sure your readers see it. It's the bullshit artists that never answer the points brought up.

[tvashtarkatena]

This amazing thread might need some old school.

 

 

if by oldschool you mean posting pictures of fat-assed transvestites or of hepatitis-infected plastic surgery victims, please don't.

 

Those pics actually make me nauseous.

 

[j_b]

The work involved. I don't get it, either. Addictions should be easier than that.

 

Are you talking about yourself?

[kevbone]

This amazing thread might need some old school.

 

 

if by oldschool you mean posting pictures of fat-assed transvestites or of hepatitis-infected plastic surgery victims, please don't.

 

Fat assed transvestites? When? Where? On cc.com.....say it an't so.

[kevbone]

This amazing thread might need some old school.

 

 

if by oldschool you mean posting pictures of fat-assed transvestites or of hepatitis-infected plastic surgery victims, please don't.

 

Those pics actually make me nauseous.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Regarding addiction, yes.

 

Regarding the ridiculous amount of effort some of you folks go through to research and document who posted what, that would be a definite no.

[kevbone]

 

Those pics actually make me nauseous.

 

Really?

 

[ivan]

but the quote/counter-quote/counter-counter-quote jerk-off cycles all ya'll tend towards are warning signs enough of Deep Mental Instablity

 

If you bother having the discussion at all, you might as well answer to the point and make sure your readers see it. It's the bullshit artists that never answer the points brought up.

its fine if your writing an essay or attempting a meaningful, managed debate, but the interwebs is a just a glorified bath-room stall

[j_b]

Regarding addiction, yes.

Most everybody is addicted to something. What matters is how it affects their life.

 

Regarding the ridiculous amount of effort some of you folks go through to research and document who posted what, that would be a definite no.

 

I certainly don't do that but I do take the time to know what I am talking about. UNsurprisingly, it's all it takes to debunk the right wing lies continually flung at us.

[prole]

its fine if your writing an essay or attempting a meaningful, managed debate, but the interwebs is a just a glorified bath-room stall

 

Here I sit, broken hearted

Came to shit, but only farted.

[j_b]

its fine if your writing an essay or attempting a meaningful, managed debate, but the interwebs is a just a glorified bath-room stall

 

the interwebs is indeed a bath-room stall but bath room stalls are very important (not all equally of course), even more so nowadays. A meaningful balanced debate can only occur if you force people to answer to the point and point it out when they don't. There is no need to concede the format and framing of the exchange from the get go.

[rob]

Are you saying FW has a wide stance?

[Jim]

meanwhile..

 

 

Danny Westneat

 

Seattle Times staff columnist

 

Last week there was a cop in the paper saying he was looking around for jobs elsewhere because the budget problems here are so bad.

 

"We're crime fighters, we're police officers," a King County sheriff's detective told Seattle Times reporter Keith Ervin. "With all these cuts we would have to say we're not able to do our jobs. We can't protect the people we're paid to serve."

 

That is a nice sentiment. You do the job mostly because you love it. The money is a side benefit.

 

If only, when it comes to King County, there was evidence this was true.

 

It turns out these same police officers are in the middle of getting a 27 percent pay boost, spanning five years. Their bosses at the county asked the police union to consider forgoing some of that massive raise in the final two years of the five-year contract, as part of an emergency, countywide pay freeze.

 

So far, no go.

 

"The indications are, they clearly are not interested in doing that," says Fred Jarrett, deputy county executive. "At all."

 

Yet the county just announced plans to lay off 30 cops. There's pain like that across every department. This week the county said it would cut its core social-services funding all the way to zero.

 

None of this is the workers' fault. But they are the largest expense, by far. So they were asked to take a one-year freeze in pay. It isn't even a complete pay freeze, because they could still get step raises by seniority.

 

But so far, only 600 of the county's 10,000 unionized employees — 6 percent — have agreed to this modest step.

 

The cops' contract is so rich, with guaranteed 5 percent raises every year, that if they went along with a one-year freeze the savings would erase the need to lay off any cops at all.

 

"I would give up my 5 percent raise to save the job of another deputy," said Sgt. John Urquhart, the sheriff's spokesman, whose pay is covered under the contract. "But then again I live in King County because I can afford to, my kids are grown and out of college, and my wife works. Most deputies don't have those luxuries."

 

 

Except that last year, 330 of the roughly 750 members of the King County police force made more than $100,000, including overtime. Twenty-five made more than $140,000.

 

Some of those are chiefs and high-rankers. But most are police out on the county beat. The highest paid was Deputy Mike Miner. He made $228,000 — $128,000 in overtime pay alone.

 

I get they have demanding jobs, way tougher than most of us. But 27 percent raises are the stuff of bubbles that popped long ago. Would it kill to freeze these whopping pay levels for a year — especially if it meant protecting the public at full force, as is said to be so important?

 

I called the union to ask, but haven't heard back (yet!). Jarrett said he thinks many of the unions still don't get it.

 

"I would say, with some exceptions, that most seem more interested in maintaining their compensation packages than in saving jobs," he said.

 

This was confessed, bluntly, by the head of the union for Metro bus drivers, Paul Bachtel. He recently told Times reporter Mike Lindblom: "They [drivers] don't expect to give up wages, benefits, working conditions, when the transit agency could cut some of its services, and not take away pay."

 

Got that? Cut services first. Services to you.

 

I'm in a union, so I understand this is part bluster. You talk tough now to make a better deal later. It's also ultimately management's fault. It was the Metropolitan King County Council, in December 2008 — well after the financial system collapsed — that awarded the 27 percent police raises.

 

But forget about them. There's a third party at this bargaining table: Us. And in six weeks we're being asked to raise our taxes. Supposedly to save the cops and courts and the rest of King County from what they're calling economic Armageddon.

 

Twenty-seven percent raises? They can save themselves first. Then we'll talk.

 

Danny Westneat's column appears Wednesday and Sunday. Reach him at 206-464-2086 or dwestneat@seattletimes.com.

 

[prole]

the interwebs is indeed a bath-room stall but bath room stalls are very important (not all equally of course), even more so nowadays.

 

The other side of the gloryhole:

 

Edited September 22, 2010 by prole

[tvashtarkatena]

Seems like every time there's a stumbling drunk on the side of the road there are 3 patrol cars on the scene.

 

Cut the force back a bit?

 

It's about time.

 

Legalize drugs, like we should have done a long time ago, and you can cut the bloated criminal justice system in half.

 

 

[j_b]

But forget about them. There's a third party at this bargaining table: Us. And in six weeks we're being asked to raise our taxes. Supposedly to save the cops and courts and the rest of King County from what they're calling economic Armageddon.

 

Bullshit! The overwhelming majority of state employees aren't cops or bus drivers. The terms of the deal they got are outrageous of course but taking it out on "public employees" or claiming that "our" taxes are going to go up for that reason is a lie (actually a few of them)

[tvashtarkatena]

Oh, but we'll need to beef up our treatment centers a bit to cater to all those addicts who CAN'T SEEM TO TAKE ANY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...at about a 10th of the cost we're paying now for poorer results.

 

Thanks, conservatards! We'll call ya next time we need to inflate a minor problem into a gargantuan one!

[j_b]

The other side of the gloryhole:

 

 

Bully! Is that Lord FW checking out how many chains and toll booths he could put in the valley?

[Jim]

But forget about them. There's a third party at this bargaining table: Us. And in six weeks we're being asked to raise our taxes. Supposedly to save the cops and courts and the rest of King County from what they're calling economic Armageddon.

 

Bullshit! The overwhelming majority of state employees aren't cops or bus drivers. The terms of the deal they got are outrageous of course but taking it out on "public employees" or claiming that "our" taxes are going to go up for that reason is a lie (actually a few of them)

 

I think the point is that folks are tired of seeing this kind of stuff. Similarly King County refused to negoiate with their employee's union to have them pay more of their share for medical benefits - which would have brought closer to what is paid by the private sector and would have saved taxpayers something like 10 million over 5 years.

 

We are voting on taxes this November - the income tax and the potential repeal of the soda/junk food tax. Jayb has a valid point. Given that folks are hard pressed why would they vote for taxes when they see this stuff going on? It's taxpayer money.

[j_b]

You seem confused. As if because some class of employees are getting an unreasonable deal, meant that budget shortfall is due to them. Could you at least compare the budget shortfall and the cost of these deals to the public?

[Jim]

I'm not confused at all. It seems simple - we're being asked to carry cuts in services - less King Co. sheriffs, less Metro bus service, and other King County services because there are ridiclious contracts in place.

 

Why would folks vote for higher taxes when the sheriff staff are gettign 5% increases per year, on top of step increases because of years in service. In this economy?

 

Similarly - King County has 17,894 employess all who received a 2% raise this year - in addition to annual step increases. WTF? 10%of the staff make in excess of $100k per year. OK, some of that includes overtime. Buy why are we paying overtime and then at the same time saying layoffs are needed or service cutbacks are necessry.

 

I think you're not admitting that there is, at least, some management issues here. The sheriff's contract was negoiated AFTER the financial meltdown. It's the public's money and needs to be spent more wisely. If you can't admit that you are not at the plate, you're on the sidewalk outside the ballpark.