Hell NO on I-1098

[j_b]

apparently won't be easy with so-called libruls around spouting anti-tax demagoguery.

 

If you could supply a coherent argument,

 

And don't rewrite history, you first refused to answer my argument, until you finally conceded that the King COunty deals has essentially no impact on the budget shortfall and then you made up some weird stuff about fiscal responsibility.

[JayB]

apparently won't be easy with so-called libruls around spouting anti-tax demagoguery.

 

If you could supply a coherent argument,

 

And don't rewrite history, you first refused to answer my argument, until you finally conceded that the King COunty deals has essentially no impact on the budget shortfall and then you made up some weird stuff about fiscal responsibility.

 

King of the moving goalpost.

 

"Yeah but those budget concessions will have no impact on plate tectonics, so...."

[j_b]

that's rich coming from someone who claims that budget shortfall is due to public workers compensations.

[Crux]

Taxes are the price of government services. When prices are increased for a service, the demand for that service goes down. A reduced demand compels an increased efficiency. And improved efficiency translates to a reduction of waste. Raise the taxes on the poor, and you get the injustice of poor people paying the taxes. Raise taxes on the rich, and you get rich people screaming for justice when it comes to wasteful spending -- and you get a more effective support for improved efficiency in the pubic sector.

[tvashtarkatena]

that's rich coming from someone who claims that budget shortfall is due to public workers compensations.

 

Which, for a record, I don't agree that that is the root cause of the problem.

[prole]

that's rich coming from someone who claims that budget shortfall is due to public workers compensations.

 

Which, for a record, I don't agree that that is the root cause of the problem.

 

So the problem was caused by the economy shitting itself and staying that way due to deregulation, tax-holidays, offshoring, wage stagnation, and excessive credit, etc, etc. BUT the problem is not going to get solved by looking into any of that shit, it's going to get solved by cutting the wages of bus drivers. OKEY-DOKEY!

[prole]

I LOVE THIS PLANET!!!

[tvashtarkatena]

that's rich coming from someone who claims that budget shortfall is due to public workers compensations.

 

Which, for a record, I don't agree that that is the root cause of the problem.

 

So the problem was caused by the economy shitting itself and staying that way due to deregulation, tax-holidays, offshoring, wage stagnation, and excessive credit, etc. BUT the problem is not going to get solved by looking into any of that shit, it's going to get solved by cutting the wages of bus drivers. OKEY-DOKEY!

 

No, I outlined my solutions already. They're there for your perusal, and they don't involve cutting any bus driver wages.

 

[JayB]

that's rich coming from someone who claims that budget shortfall is due to public workers compensations.

 

Which, for a record, I don't agree that that is the root cause of the problem.

 

So the problem was caused by the economy shitting itself and staying that way due to deregulation, tax-holidays, offshoring, wage stagnation, and excessive credit, etc. BUT the problem is not going to get solved by looking into any of that shit, it's going to get solved by cutting the wages of bus drivers. OKEY-DOKEY!

 

I think it much more likely that bus-drivers holding out for wages that lead to dramatic service cuts will reverse the tides of history.

 

I'm surprised to hear this kind of happy-talk coming from a dialectical materialist.

 

The specific problem is that the economic output at the state and local economy are no longer sufficient to pay for the total cost of the public sector as its currently configured, without raising taxes. Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland, a coherent response to a budget shortfall at the state and local level (from someone of your persuasion) would be to argue for tax increases.

 

Or you can pretend that contemplating the plight of a $70K a year bus driver taking a 5% pay cut is going to inspire Chinese migrant workers to stop being so danged competitive or, better yet - even 5% of the registered democrats in the Seattle metro area to buy a GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicle. Et....cetera.

[prole]

Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland...

 

Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine.

Edited September 23, 2010 by prole

[AlpineK]

[font:Arial Black]Dick Cheney needs your money[/font]

[prole]

Or you can pretend that contemplating the plight of a $70K a year bus driver taking a 5% pay cut is going to inspire Chinese migrant workers to stop being so danged competitive or, better yet - even 5% of the registered democrats in the Seattle metro area to buy a GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicle. Et....cetera.

 

And the same goes for a commensurate tax increase on the incomes of those in that tier that can most afford it.

[Fairweather]

When this state

a) legalizes drugs

b) cuts back its criminal justice system accordingly

c) fires half of the non-teaching clingons who've parasitically attached themselves to our school system, most noticeably the top heaviest layers of administration

and

d) waits until we're clear of this recession

 

Then I might consider voting for a tax increase.

 

Levy an income tax on the rich and, I'll guarantee you, it will be extended to everyone in short order.

 

 

A good post. For once. Jim's too. j_b? Not so much. He's a stubby little fucker.

[prole]

And speaking of Seattle bus drivers making 70k a year, have you seen what those people have to put up with on a daily basis? They earn that money.

Edited September 23, 2010 by prole

[Fairweather]

Yea - in these times I do think it's excessive. Why do you get a pay raise, on top of a COLA, for just hanging around.

 

I'm curious the metrics you want to use to evaluate performance for a policeman or bus driver.

 

Doughnut consumption.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Yea - in these times I do think it's excessive. Why do you get a pay raise, on top of a COLA, for just hanging around.

 

I'm curious the metrics you want to use to evaluate performance for a policeman or bus driver.

 

Doughnut consumption.

 

Number of wood-carvers shot?

[Fairweather]

Woah! What have we here?

 

Jim is clearly not a full-time Regressive like myself, but there seems to be a situational regressive syndrome percolating up in previously uninfected quadrants.

 

 

I too may have been wrong about Jim. Very wrong. This is a banner day on cc.com.

[tvashtarkatena]

Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland...

 

Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine.

 

Yeah, gotta agree here.

[Choada_Boy]

I love the "top heavy administration" bullshit. 2 admins for every 50 teachers is top heavy? It's obvious that someone took the "The World needs more Trigs, not fewer" advice to heart...

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm not talking about admins (secretaries) dumbshit. I'm talking about higher echelon administration...of which there are several levels.

 

Jesus, you're smarter than that.

[j_b]

" Most importantly, it will offer relief to taxpayers who feel the drip, drip, drip of the least fair tax code in America.

 

The poorest 20 percent of Washington families currently pay 17.3 percent of their income in state taxes. The highest-earning one percent of families in the state have a "burden" of just 2.6 percent. Our middle class families pay four times as much as the very wealthy.

 

Hence, I-1098 is our best chance for tax reform in four decades. It is imperfect, but a massive stride forward from the status quo.

 

The measure eliminates Business and Occupation taxes for more than 80 percent of the state's businesses, giving its greatest rewards to those hurt most by the Great Recession.

 

A total of 118,000 small businesses would find themselves exempt from the hated B & O tax while 39,000 would pay less, by estimate of the OFM's recent analysis.

 

I-1098 would also cut by 20 percent the state portion of Washington's property tax.

 

We wish the measure did more. It does not reduce the state sales tax, our least fair means of collecting revenue, and one that yields fewer dollars as downturns put more stress on state services.

 

Recovery from the "Great Recession" will come when Washington's small businesses start hiring again, and with growth in technology and bio-tech.

 

The state is hindered by the burdensome B & O tax. It socks small enterprises struggling to their feet or trying to stay standing in hard times.

 

Amazingly, in recent times, Washington has fallen to 46th out of the 50 states in the amount of our economy we invest in education, according to I-1098 proponent Bill Gates Sr. We are 44th in dollars invested per student.

 

Seventy percent of revenue generated by I-1098 would go to education. An analysis by the state's Office of Financial Management estimates that I-1098 will generate about $1.5 billion in 2012 for a trust fund dedicated to education and health care.

 

Recession has caused painful cuts. The Legislature was forced to put aside voter-passed initiatives on class size and teacher pay: 40,000 people have been cut from the state's Basic Health Plan even as its waiting list expands.

 

Our state needs brains to rebuild, minds honed by a first-rate public school system. And those minds need to be retrained: In this Global Economy, people will change jobs -- and even professions -- seven or more times in their working lives.

 

Now is the time to invest in -- not to neglect -- education. "

http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/426062_I-1098.html

[Hugh Conway]

apparently won't be easy with so-called libruls around spouting anti-tax demagoguery.

 

If you could supply a coherent argument,

 

And don't rewrite history, you first refused to answer my argument, until you finally conceded that the King COunty deals has essentially no impact on the budget shortfall and then you made up some weird stuff about fiscal responsibility.

 

King of the moving goalpost.

 

"Yeah but those budget concessions will have no impact on plate tectonics, so...."

 

PRIVATIZE PLATE TECHTONICS!

[JayB]

Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland...

 

Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine.

 

Just a reminder:

 

We're talking about state and local budget shortfalls.

 

Nothing that anyone at the state and local has any discretion over is going to have any effect whatsoever on any of the macro trends that you'll go to your grave impotently railing on about.

 

In order to deliver the current level of services, state and local officials have a menu consisting of three options. The can raise taxes, cut services, and/or cut compensation. That's all that they can influence, and that's really all that it makes sense to discuss in the context of funding state and local government.

 

Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO.

 

 

[billcoe]

apparently won't be easy with so-called libruls around spouting anti-tax demagoguery.

 

If you could supply a coherent argument, I'll listen. When the dialog slips into the typical vocabulary of demagogurey, jack-booted thugs, knuckle-draggers, and facists, well then that's not an argument.

 

This is why I rarely respond to jb. Whats the point?

 

Pfft, BTW, questioning a Stalinist libtard doesn't even make Jim a regressive wannabe. No way. Hmmm, probably just makes him "normal". Abby Normal?

...A balanced person? Hmmm.

[tvashtarkatena]

Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland...

 

Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine.

 

Just a reminder:

 

We're talking about state and local budget shortfalls.

 

Nothing that anyone at the state and local has any discretion over is going to have any effect whatsoever on any of the macro trends that you'll go to your grave impotently railing on about.

 

In order to deliver the current level of services, state and local officials have a menu consisting of three options. The can raise taxes, cut services, and/or cut compensation. That's all that they can influence, and that's really all that it makes sense to discuss in the context of funding state and local government.

 

Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO.

 

 

...or pass reform legislation that reduces the need for services, then cut those service.

 

Small but important omission. Guess its one that lives in 'rootcauseland'.

 

Well within reach, however, IMO. But then, I'm not a 'conservative'.