cross fit for alpine training?

[Pete_H]

I did xfit type workouts and xfit exercises for couple years because people in my workplace were into it. All it really did was give me muscle spasms in my back. I quit and went back to body weight type training (rings, hangboard, etc.). My back doesn't hurt anymore and I feel like I'll be in a lot better climbing shape next season.

 

I do think xfit might be healthier for people who have more muscle mass and have lifted weights their whole life.

[Lisa_D]

Paleo doesn't let you drink beer wine or whiskey so its definitly out.

 

There's that too!

[billcoe]

Of course you can always invest thousands in some cultish "seminar" like John Frieh and still be only able to climb 5.8 in the mountains.

 

Nope. I see John and Marcus doing Crossfit and suspect that's one of the reasons they are both badasses.

 

That John, who works in an office, can show up on a weekend and do a first ascent of a long multipitch granite Grade 4 5.11 in a remote location in Idaho, or turn around, jump on a plane and bag the First ascent of a peak in Alaska that has been eyeballed and tried by other strong climbers pretty much validates that thought. I think Marcus is even more of that than John, he's been eyed off in the distance free soloing some pretty hardassed ice which you can't easily train for around here as the ice forms so rarely.

 

I don't know anyone else doing it, and I suspect that it is due to cost.

[denalidave]

5. Paleo diet is bullshit.

 

FYI, I did a very strict Paleo diet early this year for close to four months in an effort to ease my psoriasis. I ate only veggies & protien (no sugar, carbs, alcohol or raw sushi though, OUCH!) for the entire time. Much to my surprise, my psoriasis was virtually cured. I gave up the diet as I felt the unbearable stress in my personal life was too much. Now, my psoriasis is coming back and I need to decide on the Paleo diet or low dose chemotherapy (thioguanine is what I was on before the diet). I was totally poo-pooing the diet but the person that told me about it swore by it and had a much worse case of the dreaded "P" (psoriasis). She had "P" over 95% of her body and after a few months of the Paleo diet, she has had no "P" for almost 5 years now (only on the Paleo diet for a few months though). I guess I need to do the diet again, but it is so hard. I also speculate that it may have been the gluten that is what I am allergic to and if I could cut that out (very hard to do daily), perhaps I could get rid of the "P" without and even stricter Paleo diet. Just my 3 cents...

[hafilax]

I've been doing crossfit for a couple of years now. I did a grand total of 5 days of climbing this past summer and have to say that I'm no worse than I ever was not that I have ever been a strong climber. Bouldering OTOH dropped a full grade.

 

I did a 'Paleo Challenge' and quit after 3 weeks. Hated it. It's great for people to discover if they have sensitivities to grains, beans or dairy but it's over the top for most IMO.

 

The biggest thing missing from crossfit for the alpine is pure endurance training. You really can't train for full day efforts with 10 minute workouts. It's better than nothing but I run out of energy on a big day after a few hours.

 

I am definitely stronger than when I started although I've plateaued recently since our coach hasn't been programming a lot of pure strength days.

 

Being sore doesn't have much to do with warming up or cooling down. It's purely a matter of overdoing it. Too much volume too soon will make you sore regardless of what you do before or after. Warming up will prevent acute injury.

[Bronco]

I was wondering if anybody does Cross Fit as a way to train for alpine climbing?

I think there are lot's of climbers who use it as part of their work out regimen.

 

I want something that will make me lose weight,

regardless of what exercise you do, you'll probably need to track calorie in vs calorie out to lose fat.

 

build strength,

I've gone back and forth between weight training and cross fit in my garage gym 2-3 times per week. The weight training seems more effective at building power but the Cross Fit really helps me with dynamic movement and core strength. This is in conjunction with 4-5 cardio/endurance workouts per week, either trail running or road biking.

 

 

and build endurance without adding to much bulk.

I agree with the other posters, the cross fit will do very little to help with endurance, you'll need to do that in addition to the cross fit. I wouldn't worry about adding bulk.

 

Thoughts??

What kind of routes are you training for? What kind of training are you doing now?

 

All I can say about the importance of a good warmup is that when I do a Cross Fit workout on the tail of a 40 minute bike ride, I don't get sore. If I run on the treadmill for 10 minutes to break a sweat and then do the cross fit warmup exercises for another 10 minutes, I am ususally sore the next day. Cool down doesen't seem to have much to do with it for me. Here's the cross fit workout I typically do, it usually takes me about 30 minutes:

 

50 x 24" box jump

50 x jumping pullup

50 x walking lunge

50 x knees to elbows

50 x KB Swing (1 pood)

50 x Push press (45lb)

50 x back extension

50 x wall ball (20lb)

50 x burpee (suck!)

50 x double under (jump rope)

 

I can't climb any harder but, I'm a better athlete and enjoy the sports I participate in more.

[Bronco]

 

Although I'm sure none of us have any weight to lose I found this series of "Killing the Fat Man" video clips interesting and can't help but get motivated by this guy's attitude. Pretty cool

 

http://journal.crossfit.com/2012/04/killingthefatmanep1.tpl

[lummox]

You know how someone does Crossfit training?

They tell you.

[CaleHoopes]

I wouldn't be surprised that focusing only on Crossfit reduced someone's bouldering performance. The only way to increase bouldering performance is to BOULDER.

[genepires]

seems that x-fit would be good for alpine training that is mainly endurance based. If one didn't have mountains in their backyard, seems like x-fit would be the second best thing for alpine training as long as you don't get hurt.

[pink]

You know how someone does Crossfit training?

They tell you.

 

 

never heard that one before!

[Pete_H]

seems that x-fit would be good for alpine training that is mainly endurance based. If one didn't have mountains in their backyard, seems like x-fit would be the second best thing for alpine training as long as you don't get hurt.

 

Not really. X fit workouts are too short and too weight-lifting intensive. If you couldn't get into the mountains to train you'd be better off putting a weighted pack on and running hills and going to the climbing gym - its way more relevant.

[John Frieh]

Apparently I can only climb 5.8 (Hi Pete ) and therefore have no right to comment in this thread but here goes:

 

- CrossFit's goal is to make you a "well rounded athlete". You are not world class at any one thing but instead okay at several things. As they like to say "outlift the runner, outrun the lifter"

 

- CrossFit uses a variety of exercises that have existed long, long, before CrossFit came into existence. CrossFit claims they were the first to combine them into workouts, often named after girls (Fran, Diane, etc). This is highly debatable but not really important in this discussion.

 

- Due to CrossFit’s surge in popularity most people will assume doing things like box jumps, Olympic lifting, pushups and really anything for time that you are doing CrossFit. This is not the case.

 

- Many of the exercises CrossFit uses will make you a better climber. A quick example would be the front squat is the single best exercise for developing core strength. You want to climb steep sport routes? Front squat.

 

- The two major drawback for doing CrossFit for climbing and really any sport is CrossFit is a one size fits all program. Following the main site workouts or even your local gym’s workouts will not give you the specificity you need to improve in climbing especially if you are fairly developed in your climbing skill set. Secondly it lacks true endurance work. True cardiovascular endurance training BEGINS at ninety minutes. Doing only CrossFit is a great way to lose your endurance base.

 

- So is CrossFit a good program? Not really. It’s okay at best. If you are serious about improving your climbing the first step would be to sit down with a coach for an hour and talk about where you are and where you want to be.

[Pete_H]

I think if you don't have access to a climbing gym, or maybe even if you do, there are certain exercises that x-fit embraces which will help your technical climbing fitness, such as rings. But alpine climbing involves moving for long periods of time which x-fit doesn't account for. So I guess John and I agree on that point.

[John Frieh]

It should be pointed out that doing CrossFit or some other program designed for well rounded health and fitness is critical to ensure lifetime healthiness of the athlete. Ever wonder why detached bicep is rampant among the old guys on super topo? Because all they have done their entire life is pull pull pull and never anything in opposition.

 

Same with endurance athletes. Trail running is a great way to get your cardio for alpine but if you arent squatting from time to time and doing other things to ensure the health of your posterior muscle chain you will have knee problems at some point.

 

Everyone should break up their year into pre, post and in season and adjust their program accordingly. Doing the samething day in and out will set you up for injury. That would be a reason to do some CrossFit (or something similar) from time to time

[Off_White]

I found this great book on the subject called Climbing Stronger, Faster, and Healthier by some guy named Mike Layton.

 

link

[teamer]

I have that book. Really like it, too.

 

[OlegV]

Because femoral and other leg muscles are large, engaging your leg muscles in hard anaerobic exercise is the most efficient way to burn your calories and increase your aerobic capacity. Staying lean will help develop speed and use your muscles and lungs more efficiently.

 

Run uphill 3-4 times a week (make sure you use good running shoes - like Brooks Cascadia and retire them every 800-1000 miles). Trail running will keep your metabolic rate high and will help develop mental and physical endurance. Off season, supplement your trail runs with a variety of upper body exercise, 3-4 times a week. Taper and climb mountains in summer – train in winter. Make sure you eat tons of proteins and recover after your long runs with lots of carbohydrates. The later will block lactate production in your muscles. Drink lots of water. Avoid alcohol and women…just kidding

 

 

[JayB]

Most people that I know who are into alpine climbing at all are into a bunch of other active stuff where being stronger helps - or at the very least have to help someone move a couch up a set of stairs every once in a while.

 

Then there's the fact that percentage of people who are tackling routes where they need to milk every last ounce of fitness potential out of their bodies to succeed is probably well below 0.0001%, and that's generally for a very small percentage of their climbing lives, and for that to be a deciding factor they've got to have all of the mountain skills developed to an exceptionally high level and be climbing with people who are equally skilled, experienced, and fit. What percentage of real alpine-climbing scenarios does this describe? For people who hit trade routes with friends a few times a year the answer is...zero.

 

IMO the reality is that there's a vanishingly small percentage of the climbing population that would have their performance in the mountains *hurt* by adding generic crossfit workouts to their routine, and most regular Joes would benefit quite a bit from doing so, even if you limit the discussion to alpine climbing. Add in the rest of life and it's even harder to identify the downside.

 

 

 

 

[Tyson.g]

^ exactly. Well said.

[matt_warfield]

I appreciate crossfit and think it is a great innovation over general weight lifting.

 

But climbing was the original crossfit. Doing 20 miles, climbing slab, cracks, scrambling, snow and ice is a good workout.

 

I'll bet Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell and Sonnie Trotter don't do crossfit. They just do huge climbing days and then rest a bit.

[CaleHoopes]

P90x is liberal, so you'll become a democrat. However, Insanity is certainly conservative. You'll be a Republican for sure on that stuff.

[Pete_H]

I don't do crossfit, I do Housework. Like pushing loaded wheelbarrow up hill, cut and split wood, rake leaves, and dig hole in ground.

[tvashtarkatena]

Here here. Anybody who needs an EXTREME workout, come on over to mine and do something useful. Performance enhancing drugs provided.

 

I've got five trees I need to dig out of the ground. If that doesn't crush your soul, you don't have one.

 

Edited October 17, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[davidk]

I've got five trees I need to dig out of the ground. If that doesn't crush your soul, you don't have one.

 

Right after I finish shoveling this gravel pile ten feet to the left.

 

Seriously though, good old manual labor, when done with good form, is a great workout and kills two birds with one stone. That said, during the summers when I dug ditches, rolled logs, and pushed wheelbarrows of various heavy things for a living, I still went home and worked out so I could improve my durability at work.