How to aid climb tips?

[Dane]

I'm actually trying to pick the corn out of this shit and learn to aid climb better.

 

Since no one seems awake at the wheel how about we do it ourselves?

 

Mark (rocketparrotlet) is serious and looking for good info on how to better his aid climbing.

 

The posts below is a good start. There are others. But lots of guys here with tons of experience on walls that are willing to help out. Here is your chance to make cc.com a better place instead of the typical slit trench it can become.

 

One major bit of advice: Don't clip the rope above you before you move on to a piece. If it blows (which is what you are protecting against in the first place), you just made your fall longer. Clip your pieces after you move to the next one.

 

why bounce test a nut with a solid cam above it? It should have been bounce tested from below.

 

Get a pair of regular daisy chains and use a fifi on them.

read some on aid techniques. try it. read some more. try them. continue ad nauseum.

simplify, simplify, simplify to go faster.

 

here is my basic sequence that I am sure many others can improve upon: assume nut for simplicity

climb up aiders till nut at waist height. hook fifi into nut.

Place next nut as high as possible while still being strong. An extra 2 inches won't matter if it blows.

clip daisy to nut. No other biner besides daisy biner.

Clip lower piece to rope, take fifi off and give a little bounce test via daisy. Put one or two aiders onto daisy biner (if not on already) and give it full body bounce test as aggresive as you feel like.

While bounce testing, your rope is connected to the nut below the testing nut which has been tested already and should hold a good fall. (If the rope is connected to testing nut and it fails, you have introduced slack into the system)

If satisfied with the new nut, climb up aiders till at waist height and fifi in again

repeat till you are sick of aid climbing and go sport climbing.

 

My suggestion is ignore the douche bag and add something useful.

 

 

[Crillz]

I'd add:

Use a grigri;

Don't look at the piece as you're bounce testing it, if you like your teeth

 

 

Also, solo aid climbing stuff like city park isn't that much worse than dragging someone out to stand there for an hour+ belaying. A little bit more involved, and good practice.

[fenderfour]

Never let the Cluster Fuck (CF) pile up. if something is getting tangled, stacked poorly, or stuck, fix it immediately. Things don't un-fuck themselves, they only get more fucked.

[DPS]

Never let the Cluster Fuck (CF) pile up. if something is getting tangled, stacked poorly, or stuck, fix it immediately. Things don't un-fuck themselves, they only get more fucked.

 

Sadi Carnot must have been a closet aid climber.

[OlympicMtnBoy]

I highly recommend you check out the "How to Big Wall Climb" posts on supertopo.com by Chris McNamara. There is some great stuff there including some videos going over basic aid technique, gear, etc.

 

http://www.supertopo.com/a/How-To-Big-Wall-Climb-Table-of-Contents/a139n.html

 

[JosephH]

I believe it was Ammon who said once you commit to a piece, don't f#ck around, step as high on it as you can and get the next one in - keep some momentum going or a pitch will drag on forever.

[Dane]

Sounds so simple that it is often over looked. But finding a place on the ground where you can set up multiple anchor systems, place a lot of different types of pro and in different ways is very useful.

 

Not very exciting but no worries about falling off and no ropes of aiders to fuss with that way. The better you can eye ball what is a good placement and the size of the gear needed to plug in the faster the real thing will be. Make the gear placements mindless by this kind of exercise and trad free climbing. Then you'll have more time and brain power to work on the "mess".

 

The "mess" is the system you'll have to deal with. The easier that is to sort out for you the better. Placing good gear will be easy by comparison.

 

[bigwalling]

Don't forget the beer! Rope bags help clusterfuck. A good little trick to stacking it in the bag is, clip a biner above the bag and then feed it downwards into the bag. Or throw the rope over your shoulder and feed it that way. Way better than coiling it and shoving it in the bag. Though I still do that sometimes if I'm being retarded.

[Teh Phuzzy]

Sounds so simple that it is often over looked. But finding a place on the ground where you can set up multiple anchor systems, place a lot of different types of pro and in different ways is very useful.

 

I've heard there is a wall up on top of Rocky Butte good for that. I think Billcoe can shed some light on that.

 

I have been wanting to get into some aid climbing as well. Mostly, I can't find someone content sitting around belaying me for hours. And the gear is a bit spendy for a broke ass student such as I.

[corvallisclimb]

I believe it was Ammon who said once you commit to a piece, don't f#ck around, step as high on it as you can and get the next one in - keep some momentum going or a pitch will drag on forever.

 

I've done a couple aid pitches and what Joseph posested is by far the best advice ever. Aid climbing is pretty fucking simple, I don't get why some people think there is some huge learning curve. Most of the systems you suss out are what works best for you. I still just use regular daisys with a fifi while it seems 90% of guys these days do that whole adjustble thing. I'm not going to change, but I'm not going to reccomend either. Its for YOU to figure out. You like 2, 3 or 4 aiders etc etc. Get some gear together, don't fuck around and I'm sure you will figure it out in no time. Summitchaser and rocketparrot you guys definatly need to refine your skills and seriously do need to look at FOH or How to climb BWs to work on your basic aid system. Like most people pointed out is totally fucked and summitchasers excuses as to why just dont jive.

 

 

My how to aid climb steps

 

 

1. Figure out your basic aid system, and aquire the proper basic aid tools (ladders, daisys, fifi, jugs).

2. Go practice.

3. Go practice.

4. Go practice.

5. Go practice.

6. Go do a route on the UTW.

7. Go practice.

8. Go practice.

9. Go do a route on Washington Column or Leaning Tower with a bivy.

10. Now you have gained the rights to spray about your aid climbing ability on cc.com

 

Your guys' problem? You put step 10 before all others.

 

Other bits of advice...

 

-Filming aid climbing is retarded unless its on a nailing route. Put the camera a way and save your belayer some time.

-Aid climbing is most definatly not "cool". Nor bad ass, so if thats your goal, give it up now.

-Listen to Ammon, seriously "commit to a peice, dont fuck around and stand up as high as you can"

-Think about this... say your doing a big wall and its windy. So every time you have to reach for your aider and grab it because its blowing sideways, adds about 10 seconds you your aid sequence. Well each pitch you gotta reach for the aiders 100 times or so. Thats an extra 17 minnutes per pitch. Say its a 20 pitch route your doing a push on, you could spend an extra 5 hours just grabbing your aidier. Little things add up. So again, dont fuck around!

-Lastly, have fun, cuz as we all know aid climbing is NOT fun.

 

PS: Aww bigwallings not trying to be a douche, he just acctually knows how to aid climb(harder than you ever will... seriously), and likes to drink sometimes so don't mind him.

[rocketparrotlet]

Thanks all for the advice. I will definitely read that link on Supertopo and check out Freedom of the Hills.

 

And as for VERY basic gear: I only have a free climbing rack right now. I don't have a lot of extra money. What are the most essential pieces that I can buy to climb basic clean easy aid?

Edited November 3, 2010 by rocketparrotlet

[corvallisclimb]

[Dane]

How about we stay on task.

 

 

[summitchaserCJB]

Everyone edits.

Edited November 4, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[rocketparrotlet]

I must have read into that wrong. I apologize.

[genepires]

pair of aiders, pair of daisies (regular kinds not PAS) and pair of jugs. The daisies are cheap. Unfortunatley the whole thing will run into a couple hundred bucks I think. You could use prussiks instead of jugs if the line is straight up. Hopefully your partner has some pro and biners to couple with your set of gear for that monster aid rack needs.

 

As seen in your video, you can get by with tied aiders and prussiks but the daisies will help.

[112]

...clip daisy to nut. No other biner besides daisy biner.

Clip lower piece to rope...

There seems to be a biner implied on the lower piece...

 

2-Biner Chain Technique (I don't know what it is really called): Rack aiders on the bottom biner of 2 biners chained together.

 

Clip 2-biner chain to high piece. Clip rope to top biner on low piece. Clean bottom biner on low peice with aiders attached. Re-rack aiders and biner onto a loose biner recreating the 2-biner chain. Repeat.

 

If you happen to need to add a sling for rope drag add it as you leave the piece. Not all pieces need extension, especially on vertical cracks. If your high piece was racked as a single and already has a biner, then break the chain on you rack and recreate the chain on the cam.

 

When doing this you save almost 2 moves per piece and never have to deal with a loaded wire or sling; the top biner takes the pinch. You do lose 1 biner length per piece but the gain in speed makes up for this, imho.

[RJRiha]

Thanks all for the advice. I will definitely read that link on Supertopo and check out Freedom of the Hills.

 

And as for VERY basic gear: I only have a free climbing rack right now. I don't have a lot of extra money. What are the most essential pieces that I can buy to climb basic clean easy aid?

 

For basic gear (in addition to the aiders, daisies, and jugs), get a fifi hook (it's cheap). Then for pieces in addition to your free rack: DMM offsets (brass and aluminum) will be used ALL THE TIME, get a cam-hook or two, and some tiny nuts (sometimes you can get a great deal on these from someone who tried and didn't like aid). After you start making some money, start filling in the rack with small and offset cams and ball nuts.

[ivan]

solo - its cruel otherwise.

smoke...alot.

bolt ladders are nice for getting the basic sequence down.

adjustable daisy w/ the fact buckle is super-tits, most especially on skeery/steep/traversing aid

personal stereo - critical - fuck headphones, get speakers, that way you can hear the creaking sounds of death around you

piss off all your firends n' partners so have no other options => more practice!

[Crack]

*cam hooks!!

 

*on a stretch where the size is consistent (and smaller), I'll have the pieces that I plan on using the most racked straight onto my aiders as oppossed to my rack -especially for leap frogging, which brings me back to...

 

*cam hooks!!

[summitchaserCJB]

How do those work crack?

[sean_beanntan]

My one advice, only use one daisy chain. If the aid is not difficult, your fifi is probably connected directly to harness. So you are then using the daisy chains to safeguard dropping each set of aiders, You run the risk of having a daisy chain on the lower piece as well as the upper piece at the same time. If that happens and the upper piece pulls, you fall onto the lower static daisy chain....ouch and the rope through the lower piece is not going to do you any dynamic good.

 

I say this because I have seen this bad technique used several times.

 

comments? anyone? anyone?

 

 

[Crack]

Brilliantly -though a little heady at first...

[summitchaserCJB]

Clever

[summitchaserCJB]

My one advice, only use one daisy chain. If the aid is not difficult, your fifi is probably connected directly to harness. So you are then using the daisy chains to safeguard dropping each set of aiders, You run the risk of having a daisy chain on the lower piece as well as the upper piece at the same time. If that happens and the upper piece pulls, you fall onto the lower static daisy chain....ouch and the rope through the lower piece is not going to do you any dynamic good.

 

I say this because I have seen this bad technique used several times.

 

comments? anyone? anyone?

 

Diagram? How would you use one daisy for two etriers?

Edited November 4, 2010 by summitchaserCJB