5.15

[KaskadskyjKozak]

[video:youtube]jAt0hF3hruU

[Choada_Boy]

Why is Entwhistle getting dragged into this?

[Kimmo]

Pope...you're talking shit...

"3. What you're doing deserves even less respect than aid climbing because the gear you cheat with takes no skill and no balls to place. Add to that it holds 12,000 lbs so your risk and commitment are zero. Add to that you place the gear while sliding down a rope."

 

again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

i'm gonna come to dwayner's defense here for a sec. he does say "no skill and no balls to place", and for the most part, i think that's true with sport climbing. clip and go.

 

i don't care about his "respect" though, and i think very few do, but i gotta say i like the 12,000 pound test bolts he talks about!

 

but regardless, we've all hashed this out before, and it's kinda fun every time. everyone gets to make fun of each other, and hey, without that it'd be pretty boring around here. popy pants gets everyone riled up, and cabalah man works his one note flute pretty well too. i doubt in the end that they take it all that seriously either, but get a good laugh about it all, as i do.

 

btw, i remember climbing with popy pants at uw rock way back in the 80's or early 90's, and he was pretty good! he could clamber up a few of the classics down there. nothing as hard as what i was doing, but he did pretty good for an old man!

 

but cabalah man? not so much. he was always a bit too hefty to try anything harder than the easy entry problems.

[rocky_joe]

... Real climbers bolt Projects they'll never send, so they know they're always climbing as hard as they can...if they send they didn't try hard enough.

 

 

Think about it for a minute:

 

1. You're wrecking the rocks with your trail of shite. You litter.

 

2. You're calling it free climbing when it's really aid. You're dishonest.

 

3. What you're doing deserves even less respect than aid climbing because the gear you cheat with takes no skill and no balls to place. Add to that it holds 12,000 lbs so your risk and commitment are zero. Add to that you place the gear while sliding down a rope.

 

I'm just trying to help you understand what you're promoting.

 

you're an idiot if you think i was serious.

[pope]

btw, i remember climbing with popy pants at uw rock way back in the 80's or early 90's, and he was pretty good! he could clamber up a few of the classics down there. nothing as hard as what i was doing, but he did pretty good for an old man!

 

Well.....that was a long time ago, but I remember you as being older than I. Or maybe you just did a bunch of drugs and came out looking like Lynn Hill. Who knows? Regarding the UW rock, let's agree that we're not talking about real climbing here. And I'm pretty sure there were a few crack and friction problems I was doing that would have spit you off (then and now). There were a couple of steep face climbs you were doing that were pretty "out there", but all they required was a big reach and commitment to a diet of sprout sandwiches.

 

 

 

[pope]

BRASS BALLS IS A CLIMB THAT MAKES ME PEE MY PANTS!

[pope]

Pope...you're talking shit...again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

Hello friend. Your boy seems like a good sport, and a splendid climber. While you're living vicariously through his accomplishments, remember to keep a helmet on him. And please don't teach him to talk like a rap artist (like his dad).

 

I don't think 5.13 is special unless you're climbing it in very good style. I suspect you've done a couple of these, but I doubt you do them any faster or in any better style than the next mediocre athlete (like I) could do. I've never done one, but I flashed Equinox on a top-rope, so I assume I could add a couple ofletter grades by adopting your strategies. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm not really interested in knowing either.

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off. One way or the other, the demands are higher, the adventure greater, the mess you leave is far smaller.

 

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

[chirp]

Pope...you're talking shit...again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

Hello friend. Your boy seems like a good sport, and a splendid climber. While you're living vicariously through his accomplishments, remember to keep a helmet on him. And please don't teach him to talk like a rap artist (like his dad).

 

I don't think 5.13 is special unless you're climbing it in very good style. I suspect you've done a couple of these, but I doubt you do them any faster or in any better style than the next mediocre athlete (like I) could do. I've never done one, but I flashed Equinox on a top-rope, so I assume I could add a couple ofletter grades by adopting your strategies. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm not really interested in knowing either.

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off. One way or the other, the demands are higher, the adventure greater, the mess you leave is far smaller.

 

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

 

:tup:

[rocky_joe]

 

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

 

so you like sport climbing then?

[RuMR]

BRASS BALLS IS A CLIMB THAT MAKES ME PEE MY PANTS!

yah...that one has me quaking in my boots...shudder

 

 

[RuMR]

Pope...you're talking shit...again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

Hello friend. Your boy seems like a good sport, and a splendid climber. While you're living vicariously through his accomplishments, remember to keep a helmet on him. And please don't teach him to talk like a rap artist (like his dad).

 

I don't think 5.13 is special unless you're climbing it in very good style. I suspect you've done a couple of these, but I doubt you do them any faster or in any better style than the next mediocre athlete (like I) could do. I've never done one, but I flashed Equinox on a top-rope, so I assume I could add a couple ofletter grades by adopting your strategies. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm not really interested in knowing either.

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off. One way or the other, the demands are higher, the adventure greater, the mess you leave is far smaller.

 

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

why don't you guys go do one in shitty style and report back with a "see I told you" and then all your bullshit will carry some weight...

[RuMR]

Pope...you're talking shit...again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

Hello friend. Your boy seems like a good sport, and a splendid climber. While you're living vicariously through his accomplishments, remember to keep a helmet on him. And please don't teach him to talk like a rap artist (like his dad).

 

I don't think 5.13 is special unless you're climbing it in very good style. I suspect you've done a couple of these, but I doubt you do them any faster or in any better style than the next mediocre athlete (like I) could do. I've never done one, but I flashed Equinox on a top-rope, so I assume I could add a couple ofletter grades by adopting your strategies. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm not really interested in knowing either.

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off. One way or the other, the demands are higher, the adventure greater, the mess you leave is far smaller.

 

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

 

:tup:

I'll see your and raise you with a turd and two :tdown:

[AlpineK]

Pope...you're talking shit...again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

Hello friend. Your boy seems like a good sport, and a splendid climber. While you're living vicariously through his accomplishments, remember to keep a helmet on him. And please don't teach him to talk like a rap artist (like his dad).

 

 

Let me get this straight, talking like a rap artist is a bad thing? You're showing how behind the times you are old fella. Aren't you getting on towards retirement age?

 

I'd say a lot of folks out there can onsite or solo things much harder than the stuff you've done. I'm not dissing you're Brass Balls solo. The point is lots of climbers use a combination of top roping rehearsing and practice to get themselves to a skill level where they climb really hard and can onsite tons of stuff that neither you or dwayner will ever have a shot at. All you can do is sit back in the rocking chair and diss the young uns

 

Climbing hard takes time and practice. If we really want to be pure by your standards then even modern ropes impact nature and the environment. We should all revert back to hemp ropes ehh?

 

 

[RJRiha]

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

 

I'm going to call BS on this one. Unless it was one of those routes rated 5.13 for it's endurance demands, you're looking at the equivalent of a V7 boulder problem, most likely after you have a healthy pump from some hard 11 or 12 climbing below. Unless you are a mutant, there is absolutely no way that simply rehearsing the moves are going to make them magically happen. If you aren't that mutant, it's going to take some major sport specific training, a dedication to hard bouldering, or both to make moves that hard.

 

How many 5.13 climbers even post to this board? Isn't Marc Leclerc chasing that grade (and judging from his videos, he is sick strong)?

 

I will agree with you that it is not much of a jump to make for an onsite 5.12 climber to pull a 5.13 with sport climbing tactics. To take this argument to reduce the accomplishments of Sharma (or anyone who has pulled 5.15) is silly at best.

 

So Pope, what do you think of today's cutting edge "trad" climbers such as Caldwell and Trotter? Both have shown a high level of onsite ability, but have used the sport tactic to do near superhuman feats.

 

 

[RuMR]

dude...logic doesn't apply here...

 

You must remember that they hiked uphill both directions in driving blizzard snows while suffering unbelievably from the scorching 120 degree blazing sun and carrying lead bricks to anchor to so they could ascend their 5.8c/d moss covered, slug infested death defying ankle shattering heroic endeavor of a route. Each time they lowered desperately from the second move (and then the third, then the fourth, and so on...) of the route so as to stay pure to their ideals. This was due to the fact that they didn't want to suffer the "boos" from the massive audiences that also hiked uphill both directions in driving blizzard snows while suffering unbelievably from the scorching 120 degree blazing sun...

 

 

 

(how's that for a run-on sentence, poopy?)

[G-spotter]

just remember: rehearsed climbing past bolts is bad but the same tactic of rehearsal applied to free soloing (especially to a certain climb on Castle Rock) gives wood

[kevbone]

Pope or Raindawg. Please try to answere this question.

 

How many attempts does it take before in your mind it becomes siege climbing?

 

 

[eldiente]

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off.e.

 

Funny how everyone associates "trad" climbing with bold because your placing gear. I find the opposite is true, climbing at the Creek I can plug a bomber piece every 6 inches if I want. No commitment or boldness is required, easy to on-sight as I know that I can stop anywhere and plug bomber gear. If the on-sight goes South, I know I can French Free it to get up the pitch. Mellow fun.

 

Same goes with gear. Yeah a big shinny bolt aways makes you feel good, but I feel the same way about a good cam. Climbing above natural gear is no more scary or bold than climbing above a bolt.

 

The longest/most painful falls I've ever taken have always been above bolts. You get into positions where you have to make a hard clip or take a nasty whipper. No way you can plug in more pro to calm the nerves or French Free the moves to get around a crux section. So in this sense I sometime find a bolted pitch to be more "exciting" or as some on this forum would say "bold."

 

*Eds note. I was thinking about this yesterday while on sighing this dirty 5.11C R pitch. Technically this is a rap bolted sport pitch, but the first bolt was half way out and wiggled, the second one was bomber but a ground fall from 40 feet to clip it. Remind me again how this is "safer" than climbing a few feet above a bomber cam?*

-Nate

[glassgowkiss]

Pope...you're talking shit...again, until you and your fudgepackin' old man actually do send a 5.13, its all conjecture on your part about "no skill and no balls"...

 

Hello friend. Your boy seems like a good sport, and a splendid climber. While you're living vicariously through his accomplishments, remember to keep a helmet on him. And please don't teach him to talk like a rap artist (like his dad).

 

I don't think 5.13 is special unless you're climbing it in very good style. I suspect you've done a couple of these, but I doubt you do them any faster or in any better style than the next mediocre athlete (like I) could do. I've never done one, but I flashed Equinox on a top-rope, so I assume I could add a couple ofletter grades by adopting your strategies. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm not really interested in knowing either.

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off. One way or the other, the demands are higher, the adventure greater, the mess you leave is far smaller.

 

Sport climbing? Virtually every requirement described in the previous paragraph is bypassed. You can spend days or weeks working one pitch, you can hang, yard, top-rope, whatever you want. I think Dwayner's point is accurate, which is that 5.13 isn't really that great a leap above hard 5.11 or 5.12, when so many of the requirements of traditional climbing are removed. It doesn't matter whether you've done one, or I've done one, or Dwayner's done one. If sport climbing tactics are employed, it's no greater accomplishment than climbing a 5.12 in good style.

talking shit from a couch is easy. if 5.11 or 5.12 are in the same league as 5.13 why don't you get off your ass and try it for change. Rudy and I have tried it in the past and our experiences are quite different. Maybe you should eat a big "shut the fuck up sandwich", just a reminder T-A=0

[Pete_H]

 

The point is, the traditional approach to mountaineering (rock, ice, whatever) requires everything the sport climber is doing and more. You have to worry about protection, about safety, about leading out on moves when the pro below you may be questionable and you don't know whether any good pro exists above. You have to worry about possibly getting a bolt in on lead, or maybe you just back off. One way or the other, the demands are higher, the adventure greater, the mess you leave is far smaller.

 

We all know alpinism is the most bad ass. But most alpinists these days, like Steve House, train by clipping bolts.

[RuMR]

BOOO! BOOO! BOOO!

[glassgowkiss]

" You have to worry about protection"

Use trojan!

[tvashtarkatena]

It's so much easier to simply accept one's mediocrity than to invent a bag of artificial handicaps, self labeled as 'style' or 'ethics', to provide excuses for same.

 

It's also more graceful to accept that whatever you accomplished when younger will likely be improved upon by those who follow.

 

In this thread we see a couple of local yocals who weren't even well known during their peak in the small pond that is Washington judge the world's top climbers by nothing more than a bag of excuses for their own former mediocrity and current state of embarrassingly graceless aging. They are the unquestioned authorities on the subject in a rarefied association with a total membership of 2.

 

I've seen 14 year olds do a better job of poser-powered shit-talking.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Of course, I mean that in the very best sense.

[AlpineK]

You know, Pope did solo Brass Balls. That's a cool thing to do.

 

The question I have is how may times did he rehearse the climb prior to his solo? I'm sure there was no hang dogging done, but any climbs prior to the solo were rehearsal climbs.

 

Why are Popes rehearsals different from the ones he complains about?