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billcoe

Death due to rope failure

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Apparently a 9.4 Bluewater rope failed, ie, parted in 2 after a shorter fall, and this guy died. I know we have endlessly discussed the thinner stuff and the longevity of it, but this was suppose to be a new rope and from the sounds of it not one which although a few years old, needed to be retired. I own one of these in 70 meters which I save for light or where I need low gravity days. The last rope that failed on a light fall in a rock gym, the guy could only remember setting it down by the side of the road as he otherwise always used a rope bag, apparently right after a battery had been placed there as there was sulferic acid tested on the fibers. Use rope bags religiously I guess is the moral of the story: if there is one.

 

I've got some sparse information about a fatality at Seneca Rocks last Saturday.

 

The information I got so far is that a leader was climbing the route "La Bella Vista", fell, and the (single) rope he was using was cut by a sharp edge, falling all the way to the ground.

 

La Bella Vista is a two pitches 5.10a trad, on the East Face of the South Peak, close to the South End. Most of the teams do only the 2nd pitch (there are other routes that converge to the base of that pitch), but I am not sure where the accident took place. This second pitch climbs an vertical arête to an overhang, easing the angle immediately after.

 

I usually use a single rope at Seneca, but I am considering to climb in doubles more often...

 

Someone has details of what happened? My sympathy and condolences to the friends and family of the climber.

 

Full thread link including folks who were there: http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2171991;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

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I didn't read what is on rockclimbing.com, but can someone explain to me (kevbone) how this is rope failure? isn't the rope supposed to be "cuttable"? it fell on a sharp thing? did it snap? or was it cut? details...

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I didn't read what is on rockclimbing.com, but can someone explain to me (kevbone) how this is rope failure? isn't the rope supposed to be "cuttable"? it fell on a sharp thing? did it snap? or was it cut? details...

 

I will try. Pick a noun or verb which fits (from the Mirriam-Webster dictionary):

 

 

verb

Etymology:

Middle English failen, from Anglo-French faillir, from Vulgar Latin *fallire, alteration of Latin fallere to deceive, disappoint

Date:

13th century

 

intransitive verb1 a: to lose strength : weaken b: to fade or die away c: to stop functioning normally 2 a: to fall short b: to be or become absent or inadequate c: to be unsuccessful "

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Sure. I'm open to the fact it failed. I'm just wondering how yall have been able to jump to that conclusion. Or perhaps there is some evidence you have? If something is really sharp and the rope is really loaded, what is to stop a clean cut? What evidence are you using when you say the rope didn't do what it was supposed to do?

 

I'm totally open here to the facts that you guys apparently know that I don't.

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Sure. I'm open to the fact it failed. I'm just wondering how yall have been able to jump to that conclusion. Or perhaps there is some evidence you have? If something is really sharp and the rope is really loaded, what is to stop a clean cut? What evidence are you using when you say the rope didn't do what it was supposed to do?

 

I'm totally open here to the facts that you guys apparently know that I don't.

 

OK OK OK, I know you're not new here Jake (hey, bought your book BTW, "Rescued by the Magic of Christmas" written by CC.coms own Melissa Mclune), but this is the internet, we all showed up for the hanging, the trial can be later:-) As you know, these things take time to garner the data, so just give us a moment to gather out pitchforks and torches first.

 

I think it took 2 months to test the last rope that snapped in a gym. That was a newer rope, and determined to have been exposed to sulfuric acid.....that rope failed as well, snapped in 2, like this one in that way, if it was the same cause has not been determined......

 

Merry Christmas :wave:

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Yeah you don't think the SHARP EDGE mentioned with respect to this thread might have anything to do with it eh?

 

Ropes have been failing in falls over sharp edges for years. All brands, all diameters.

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Yeah you don't think the SHARP EDGE mentioned with respect to this thread might have anything to do with it eh?

 

Ropes have been failing in falls over sharp edges for years. All brands, all diameters.

 

Sure, and how about the size? You think that had anything to do with it?

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I think mostly the SHARP EDGE had something to do with it. You know, a

 

----> SHARP

 

----> EDGE

 

...

 

sharp, right?

 

 

Like if someone got hit by a house-sized boulder and squashed, would you post it up as "another Petzl Meteor failure"?

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How about that Black diamond harness failure a couple decades or so ago?

Damn thing didn't run itself back through. Beligerence?

 

How about that harness failure in Yosemite spring 08?

Damn thing let itself get worn out. Shortsighted?

 

The world is so full of failures.

Who can I trust?

 

 

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I'll argue that smaller diameter ropes are more likely to be severed completely when cut on a sharp edge than larger diameter ropes. Its a known hazard. Why is anyone surprised?

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#1 piece of safety gear needs to be yer brain. Sounds like the Seneca Rocks example is one with little info, but we can be certain that regardless of what happened there, with 20mm ropes some folks would still figure out a way to make them fail. Kinda like our education system!

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How about that Black diamond harness failure a couple decades or so ago?

Damn thing didn't run itself back through. Beligerence?

 

How about that harness failure in Yosemite spring 08?

Damn thing let itself get worn out. Shortsighted?

 

The world is so full of failures.

Who can I trust?

 

 

I heard about a case where a woman spilled freshly brewed coffee on herself and suffered thermal injuries. Who saw that coming?

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if you die b/c your rope fails, its a sign dog didn't like you :)

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How about that Black diamond harness failure a couple decades or so ago?

Damn thing didn't run itself back through. Beligerence?

 

How about that harness failure in Yosemite spring 08?

Damn thing let itself get worn out. Shortsighted?

 

The world is so full of failures.

Who can I trust?

 

 

I heard about a case where a woman spilled freshly brewed coffee on herself and suffered thermal injuries. Who saw that coming?

 

Then She Sued McD's and won...lame.

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How about that Black diamond harness failure a couple decades or so ago?

 

just a small detail:

 

It was a Chouinard harness; the accident led to the employees buying the company and reforming as Black Diamond.

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What? We didn't decide you needed your ass kicked? How strange.

 

 

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What? We didn't decide you needed your ass kicked? How strange.

 

 

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Not affiliated with the Red Cross. Surfaces should be clean of paint,grease,dirt, etc. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. $2.98/min AE/V/MC. Post office will not deliver without postage. Simulated picture. List was current at time of printing. Penalty for private use. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Do not expose to direct sunlight. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error, or failure to perform. No Canadian coins. Do not puncture or incinerate empty container. See label for sequence. Do not write below this line. Time lock safe clerk cannot open. At participating locations only. Serial numbers must be visible. Align parts carefully, then bond. Falling rock zone. Keep out of reach of children. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your cancelled check is your receipt. Check paper path. Place stamp here.Avoid contact with eyes and skin and avoid inhaling fumes. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Possible penalties for early withdrawal. Sign here without admitting guilt. No solicitors. Price slightly higher east of Alaska. Storage temperature: -30 C (-22 F) to 40 C (104 F). Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. No purchase necessary. Limited time offer, call now to ensure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. Extinguish all pilot lights. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only with proper ventilation. Replace with same type only. Accessories sold separately. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. Hard hat area. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction by mechanical or electronic means, including photocopying, is strictly prohibited. Adults 18 and over only. Detach and keep for your reference. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. Demo package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free before deciding. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the TradeMarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. This supersedes all previous notices. Tag not to be removed under penalty of law. Subject to CARB approval. Do not stamp. Not rated by the Motion Picture Association of America. Call for nutritional information. Printed on recycled paper. Prizes are not redeemable for cash equivalent. To be used as a supplementary restraint system only. Some dripping may occur. Always fasten your safety belt. Subject to change without notice. Do not staple or paper clip. Do not X-ray. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Magnetic media, non-returnable if seal is broken. Formatted to fit your screen. Prolong exposure to vapors has caused cancer in laboratory animals. Not the Beatles. Add toner. Road construction ahead. Open other end. Dealer participation may affect final price. May not be present in all tap water. Park at your own risk. Employees and their families and friends are not eligible. See Uniform Code of Military Justice. Approved for veterans. * - Indicates a low-fat item. Tax, tag, and title not included in advertised price. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Avoid spraying into eyes. An 18% gratuity will be added for parties of 8 or more. Restaurant package, not for resale. For qualified buyers. Call toll free before digging. Unit not labeled for individual sale. The following information is meant for general educational purposes only. Contents under pressure. Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T. No transfers issued until the bus comes to a complete stop. All passengers must be behind the white line while bus is in motion. Package sold by weight, not volume. Your mileage may vary. No shirt, no shoes, no service. No smoking, food, or drink. This article does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my family, my roommate, my friends, or my cat. Don't quote me on that. Don't quote me on anything. You may distribute this article freely but you may not make a profit from it. Do not use near open flame. Management not responsible for loss or theft. Maximum speeding fine unless you are Dannible: $350. Terms are subject to change without notice. Illustrations are slightly enlarged to show detail. We have kosher and non-kosher foods. Do not remove this disclaimer under penalty of law. Hand wash only, tumble dry on low heat. Do not bend, fold, mutilate, or spindle. No substitutions allowed. For a limited time only. This article is void where prohibited, taxed, or otherwise restricted. Caveat emptor. All taxes become liability of the winner. Handicapped parking - tow zone. Product is provided "as is" without any warranties. User assumes full responsibility. An equal opportunity employer. We accept food stamps. Quantities are limited while supplies last. If any defects are discovered, do not attempt to fix them yourself, but return to an authorized service center. Use at your own risk. Parental advisory - explicit lyrics. Text may contain explicit materials some readers may find objectionable, parental guidance is advised. Keep away from sunlight. You must be 54" tall to ride this ride. Disconnect spark plug wire before servicing. Keep away from pets and small children. Limit one per family, please. No money down. You need not be present to win. Do not try this at home. Instructions are included. Action figures sold separately. No preservatives added. Shown with optional equipment. Product does not really fly. Coated with food-grade vegetable, beeswax, and/or shellac-based wax or resin to maintain freshness. This product contains olestra. Safety goggles required during use. For demonstration purposes only. Sealed with printed foil for your protection, do not use if safety seal is broken. Not liable for damages arising from use or misuse. For external use only. If rash, irritation, redness, or swelling develops, discontinue use. WARNING: may cause cirrhosis of the liver, inflammation of the brain, heart damage, pancreatic damage, kidney damage, spleen implosion or explosion, thyroid combustion, severe nasal hair growth, blindness, eruptia, pregnancy, infertility, fecal incontinence, impotence, loss of genitalia and/or hermaphroditism, hair loss skin blemishes, bone deformity, throat cancer, ulcers, hangnails, bladder leakage, sores, scabs, elephantiasis, hepatitis, conjunctivitis, gingivitis, appendicitis, bronchitis, and/or athlete's foot. Avoid extreme temperatures and store in a cool dry place. Do not puncture, incinerate, or store above 120 degrees Fahrenheit / 49 degrees Celsius. Do not place near a flammable or magnetic source. Your email session may be monitored at the University's discretion. Smoking this article could be hazardous to your health. The best safeguard, second only to abstinence is the use of a condom. No salt, MSG, artificial color or flavoring added. Use type GR927 battery. WARNING: pregnant women, the elderly, Dru and children should avoid this product. Discontinue product use if any of the following occurs: itching, vertigo, dizziness, tingling in extremities, loss of balance or coordination, slurred speech, temporary blindness, profuse sweating, or heart palpitations. May stick to certain types of skin. Contains no fruit juice. Push down, then twist. Dry clean only. UL listed. Articles are ribbed for your pleasure. Offer valid only at participating sites. Allow four to six weeks for delivery. Must be 18 to use. Warrenty does not cover misuse, accident, extraterrestrial impact, lightning, floods, tornadoes, solar flares, tsunami, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, supernovas, hurricanes, other Acts of God, neglect, damage from improper or unauthorized use, incorrect line voltage and/or frequency, broken antenna or marred cabinet, missing or altered serial numbers,chemical reactions, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, sonic boom shock waves, customer adjustments that are not covered in this list, and incidents owing to an airplane crash, Divine Intervention, extraterrestrial intervention, ship sinking or taking on water, motor vehicle crashing, explosive decompression, hard vacuum, dropping the item, falling rocks, falling anything, falling on rocks, falling on anything, caustic chemicals, napalm, leaky roofs, broken glass, magnetic fields, laser or other energy weapons, sub-atomic particle bombardment, emissions of x-rays, microwave, ultraviolet, cosmic, and/or gamma rays, mud slides, forest fires, or projectiles (which may include, but are not limited to, arrows, bombs, artillery shells, missiles, bullets, snowballs, hand grenades, buckshot, BBs, flares, shrapnel, liquid-filled balloons, torpedoes, knives, stones, spears, swords, maces, pikes, clubs, morningstars, etc.). Other restrictions may apply. These web site links are listed as a convenience to our visitors. If you use these links, we take no responsibility and give no guarantees, warranties or representations, implied or otherwise, for the content or accuracy of these third-party sites. Caution: The contents of this bottle should not be fed to fish. Do not use while sleeping. Do not use in shower. Warning: This product can burn eyes. Caution: Hot beverages are hot! For external use only! Warning: May contain small parts. Do not use orally. Please keep out of children. Do not recharge, put in backwards, or use. Warning: Do not use on eyes. Do not look into laser with remaining eye. Do not use for drying pets. Do not use as ear plugs. Please store in the cold section of the refrigerator. Warning: knives are sharp. Not for weight control. Twist top off with hands. Throw top away. Do not put top in mouth. Theft of this container is a crime. Do not use intimately. Warning: has been found to cause cancer in laboratory mice. Fragile. Do not drop. Cannot be made non-poisonous. Caution: Remove infant before folding for storage. Excessive dust may be irritating to shin and eyes. Look before driving. Do not iron clothes on body. Do not drive car or operate machinery. For indoor or outdoor use only. Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly. This door is alarmed from 7:00pm - 7:00am. Beware! To touch these wires is instant death. Anyone found doing so will be prosecuted. Warning: do not use if you have prostate problems. Product will be hot after heating. Do not turn upside down. Do not light in face. Do not expose to flame. Choking hazard: This toy is a small ball. Not for human consumption. May be harmful if swallowed. Using Ingenio cookware to destroy your old pots may void your warranty. Do not attempt to stop the blade with your hand. Do not dangle the mouse by its cable or throw the mouse at co-workers. Warning: May contain nuts. Do not eat. Access hole only -- not intended for use in lifting box. Warning: May cause drowsiness. Warning: Misuse may cause injury or death. Do not use orally after using rectally. Turn off motor before using this product. Not to be used as a personal flotation device. Do not put in mouth. Please remove before driving. Remove plastic before eating. Not dishwasher safe. For lifting purposes only. Do not put lit candles on phone. Warning! This is not underwear! Do not attempt to put in pants. Do not use house paint on face. Do not drive cars in ocean. Always drive on roads - Not on people. For a limited time only. No stopping or standing. Do not sit under coconut trees. These rows reserved for parents with children. All cups leaving this store, rather full or empty, must be paid for. Malfunction: Insufficient water. Prescriptions cannot be filled by phone. You could be a winner! No purchase necessary. Details are inside. Fits one head. Payment is due by the due date. Take care: new non-slip surface. In case of flood, proceed uphill. In case of a flash flood, proceed uphill quickly. 100% pure yarn. Remove the plastic wrapper. Open packet. Eat the contents. Remove wrapper, open mouth, insert muffin, eat. Use like regular soap. Federal law prohibits the smoking of tampons in the lavatory. Instructions: usage known. Serving suggestion: Defrost. Simply pour the biscuits into a bowl and allow the cat to eat when it wants. In order to get out of car, open door, get out, lock doors, and then close doors. Please include the proper portion of your bill. Optional modem required. Actual product may not match expectations. Not valid with other offers. Copies freely and wantonly distributed over the internet and behind your back. This rating, this description, and this topo, are based

on dim recollections, misguided conscenses, half-baked guesses, and outright lies, and in NO WAY do they even ATTEMPT to tell the full story. Loose rock, weather, and excessive consumption of alcohol are among countless factors that will KILL you when attempting this route. If you can't take responsibility for your own safety, for your own decisions and knowledge, if you can't climb at your own risk, if you or your survivors are the kind who would try to sue the author of a topo or a guidebook, PLEASE stay far far away from this and all my routes, give up climbing, and die of some completely natural, painful, slowly progressive disease.

 

Some exclusions may apply and the omnipresent "your results may vary".

Oh... is that all, bill?

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