Daisy Chains - Yea ... or Nay?

[thelawgoddess]

I just wanted to take a little poll.

[sk]

I love my daisy. It allows me to have controle over the length of my leash, especialy useful when prepairing to rap, as I am chicken shit and short, I hate that free drop thing that can happen. Go get one and use it often

[DPS]

Good for aid climbing, too bulky for free/alpine climbing. I use a ~4 foot piece of 8 mm cord tied to my harness.

[erik]

I PREFER NOT TO USE a daisy chain while free climbing.....adds more crap to your power point on the harness.....

 

i just use the rope, a locker and a non-locker and a couple clove hitches....

 

for rapping....you got like 10 shoulder lengths right???? bingo!!!

 

less crap you carry the better off you are!!!!

[Dru]

Yea to daisies. I assume you mean for climbing anchors etc right not at pube club

[fern]

nay ... unnecessary piece of gear.

 

although some people have been known to build their belay anchors simply by clipping cams and widgets directly into various pockets of their daisy ... bomber

[Dru]

Ya well if you clip in with the daisy then you never have to pause while someone is runout a few meters short of a good ledge, and untie your clove hitches that you are connected to the belay with, to give them the extra rope they need to make the ledge. youknow who im talking to here right

[rbw1966]

I'm pretty fond of my metolius adjustable daisies.

[Necronomicon]

Light, fast, easy redundancy. Great protection while you build an anchor. I climbed for a long time without, now I'm never without it. Indispensible at rappel stations.

[iain]

Heard talk of daisies being used as belay anchors? Most companies design them simply to hold body weight (though they can clearly hold much more based on break strength, they bar-tack for body weight on those loops).

 

Has someone heard otherwise?

[erik]

quote:

---

Originally posted by iain:

Heard talk of daisies being used as belay anchors? Most companies design them simply to hold body weight (though they can clearly hold much more based on break strength, they bar-tack for body weight on those loops).

 

Has someone heard otherwise?

---

I JUST GOT TOLD THE OTHER DAY, THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE THE TOP LOOP OF A DAISY CLIPPED AS WELL AS A LOOP LOWER DOWN OR IT ISNT FULL STRENGTH...SUP WIT DAT???

[Lambone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rbw1966:

I'm pretty fond of my metolius adjustable daisies.

---

I just got a pair as well and I am allready in love. Although i'll probably only use 'em for aiding.

[rbw1966]

quote:

---

Originally posted by iain:

Heard talk of daisies being used as belay anchors? Most companies design them simply to hold body weight (though they can clearly hold much more based on break strength, they bar-tack for body weight on those loops).

 

Has someone heard otherwise?

---

"THE WORD" from Metolius when I inquired as to the strength rating of their adjustable daisies was that you should never rely solely on your daisies as the anchor. They are rated substantially lower than their actual breaking strength. I suspect this is to avoid liability associated with someone taking a static fall on daisies. In other words, yeah you can rely on your daisies as the anchor but if they break and you tweak your back after a static fall don't come crying to us.

[layton]

That way if the bar tack rips you're clipped into you'll still be clipped into the loop at the end (which is almost full stregnth since there are no bar tacks to rip).

 

Daisys rule, quick light less chance of death at rappels and anchors. Bring it.

[Lambone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by iain:

Heard talk of daisies being used as belay anchors? Most companies design them simply to hold body weight (though they can clearly hold much more based on break strength, they bar-tack for body weight on those loops).

 

Has someone heard otherwise?

---

Clipped in at each end, it is a full strenght runner. But the bar tacks are only bodyweight or so.

 

So much of the strength is determined by how you clip it in.

 

If you clip into two loops next to eachother and the bar tack blows...your biner is no longer a part of the continous loop. Does that make sense?

[rr666]

Yea! I almost always have one girthed into my harness. great for many things. Tie into anchor with it and a clove hitch on the rope. The length is easily adjustable, and are very handy for things like starting rappelling for all us chickens out there. my vote is for them.

[Cpt.Caveman]

nay i always tie into rope unless I am aid climbing. It is more efficient and faster. Daisy chains get in the way free climbing when I am grabbing for gear.

 

It's all an opinion though...

[Bronco]

I like the daisy chain or a long runner for tying into the anchor whilst free climbing mainly because it is stronger than using the rope and clove hitch like in the event your partner takes a fall directly on the belay or something. but it is more crap to worry about and get in the way.

[Matt]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lambone:

Clipped in at each end, it is a full strenght runner. But the bar tacks are only bodyweight or so.

 

So much of the strength is determined by how you clip it in.

 

If you clip into two loops next to eachother and the bar tack blows...your biner is no longer a part of the continous loop. Does that make sense?

---

A guy named crazy jamie suggested to me that I clip screamers on the anchors for a climb called Snake Dike on Half Dome. I thought clipping into one of the inner loops on my daisy might act like a screamer-- in the case of a factor 1 or 2 fall, a few of the bar tacks would blow but the continuous loop would hold weight equal to a sewn sling. I also would tie into the anchor with a clove hitch. My thinking was the force absorbed by the bar tacks would keep the 1/4 inch bolts from pulling.

 

Of course no one fell and we even ended up simlu climbing-- tried to link a few pitches and the rope came up short. And of course Snake Dike is really a hike, not a climb.

 

So I say yes to daisies. Nice for rappel stations and avoiding belay station snafus when climbing in a party of three.

[Cpt.Caveman]

It is not stronger than the rope... The rope is your life. Plus I always climb with 24 inch runners. I can use those for daisies if need be. Daisy chains are a waste of weight IMHO.

 

[ 05-23-2002, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[fishstick]

Although they add clutter, they also reduce complexity at stations. At only 48gm it's a no-brainer on ice or alpine terrain.

 

GB

[jaee]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fishstick:

it's a

no-brainer

on ice or alpine terrain.

 

GB

---

Sounds perfect for the Caveman. Where's the problem?

 

[ 05-23-2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: jaee ]

[jkrueger]

A daisy girthed through the harness does tend to clutter things and get in the way. For toproping and sport leading it's not much of an issue. But snagging gear that you're in the process of placing or cleaning gets annoying! I do appreciate the quick convenience and adjustability of a daisy. I keep mine attached to my harness at all times and find the entanglement issues it causes are minimal compared to the benefits. Besides, I like knowing it's always there if I need it.

[fleblebleb]

Yea to daisies, except they're a bit of a luxury - expensive and a pain to rack.

 

Two for sport climbing - clip into each anchor bolt before threading and rapping. Why bother clipping the rope into the anchor if you're going to untie from it anyway?

 

Two for aiding, for sure.

 

One or none for trad or alpine or ice? Too much other stuff on the harness and you also need to have one or preferably two prusik loops to get up the rope or escape a belay or set up a Z-pulley or whatever. Unless you anticipate having to aid, then two daisies.

[glen]

100!

 

I think the point that lambone made is a good one. If a daisy is improperly clipped, it can result in total failure. If you clip several loops, the daisy will retain full strength, but the resulting tangle-0-daisy has the potential to cross load the biner, catch on the gate or any number of fun things. If you keep it girthed to the front of your harness and clipped somewhere else, it will often become tangled in your rack (assuming trad) and cause problems. Of course, if you're a sporto, it probably won't be much of an issue.

 

The weight issue is not really an issue because a short daisy weighs in similar to a 24" runner. On the other hand, a runner has the benefit of being dual purpose on those long, sewn-up pitches where you want every runner you have (we've all been there at some point).

 

If you're worried about belays that might blow, just bring a screamer. If the belays are that suspect, or the forces will be that great (snake dike is a slab, so fall forces will be mitigated a bit by the friction of the climber losing skin on granite), the weight of a screamer is a small price to pay.

 

Personally, I reserve my daisys for aid climbing and use a runner at belays. If the pitches are short, I will often tie an eight on a bight of rope. This also allows the leader to take the extra runner on the next pitch, if needed.

 

As with many thing in climbing, each situation may require a different approach and daisys may or may not be appropriate. As a personal anchor at belays they are totally bomber. As the main link in a belay, I would be suspect and approach it with caution as an incorrectly clipped biner can reduce the overall reliability of the system below my comfort level.

 

0.02