Biggest SandBag [Local Route]

[minx]

RuMR said:

green camalot???? Damn, you should be hiking 12 hand cracks!!!! HAHAHAHAH Lisa Gnade version 2.0 Release MINXY!!!

 

if only i had the technique and strength to go w/the tiny hands

 

but i gotta admit i love it when the guys whine about the tiny finger locks...they're usually nice fingers even hands

[cracked]

minx said:

RuMR said:

green camalot???? Damn, you should be hiking 12 hand cracks!!!! HAHAHAHAH Lisa Gnade version 2.0 Release MINXY!!!

 

if only i had the technique and strength to go w/the tiny hands

 

but i gotta admit i love it when the guys whine about the tiny finger locks...they're usually nice fingers even hands

Yeah, gloat about it. Just remember, what's perfect hands for me is arm-barring for you!

[slothrop]

ScottP said:

I'll second the Lizard Chimney at Index and add that frickin Blockbuster thing. It spanks me every time.

 

I backed off Blockbuster the first time I tried it... it's so awkward. Only two moves, but I shredded my arms with "offwidth technique". My second liebacked the stupid thing.

 

Is it just me, or is the rightmost crack on the north side of the big tower of the UW rock a lot like BOC?

[Led_Hed]

Butterbrickle-Peshastin Pinnacles (5.6 I think).

[jhamaker]

W ridge of Stuart

 

How many people do you know who read Becky so try to do it in one day!

[EWolfe]

Cruel Sister at Lower Gorge is wicked hard for .10b.

[Jens]

I think we (the whole northwest climbing community) should adjust index ratings across the board.

Before you spray me, hear me out:

 

I was always taught that usualy ratings should not be changed from the original ascensionist's rating so that the historical signifigance could be maintained. For instance- if "John Doe" chicken wings up some ow horror show on the Elephant Rock in 1959 and calls it the first 5.10, that rating should be respected and left alone for its historical significance (Even if the reigning world cup climbing champion can't even do one move on the route.)

 

Index is a good place to climb but didn't even have Washington's first 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, 5.8, 5.9, 5.10, 5.11, 5.12, or 5.14 so in that context, none of the climbs' ratings are historical benchmarks. If you look in the back of the Clint Cummin's guidebook, 85% of the the climbs are put up by the same dozen people within a 8-10 year window.

------------

We've all heard the index arguements and spray before. But the fact of the matter is, many of us are well traveled rock climbers. Index indeed has some of the stiffest ratings anywhere. Even a footwork expert... schooled on Bachar horror shows will tell you this if they have climbed at index.

I just pulled up an about 12 year old magazine stating that Tom Herbert became the first climber to beta flash a 5.12 at index after a near miss the day before. At the time of writing, can I assume that no one had ever onsighted a .12 at index?.

Put the testoterone aside everyone and lets add at least one letter grade to every climb. This can be done by word of mouth. I already do when climbing at index with out of towners. - I will continue to do this.

-----

This is perhaps one of the only areas in the country where this is applicable. This argument is also logical for making an area's ratings harder.

Think about it --it makes sense.

Royal R. would argree

Flame away!

 

 

 

 

 

[RuMR]

Jens...i completely disagree w/ you...index is no stiffer than seneca, jtree, the gunks, t-wall, stone mountain or any well established area or yosemite...of course if you want to compare it to a joke rating system like one at Owens, or Jacks or Exit 38 its gonna seem stiff...BUT, the key is those areas are off, for whatever reason...

 

it has its "quirks" about itsclimbing...but being local, you gain an appreciation and an ability to handle them...

 

The main thing is that index should keep consistent w/in its own rating scale...ie one 5.10a index climb should feel like another 5.10a index climb...and screw the rest of the climbing areas...

 

People learn to climb in a gym and then think they are all bad ass and don't realize that stuff can be technical, yet still not rated 5.12...Funny thing, when you work the routes at index and send them, they don't feel all that bad...they are technique, not strength based...

 

Long live the "index .11b"!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 22, 2003 by RuMR

[Peter_Puget]

Jens said:

 

Index indeed has some of the stiffest ratings anywhere. Even a footwork expert... schooled on Bachar horror shows will tell you this if they have climbed at index.

I just pulled up an about 12 year old magazine stating that Tom Herbert became the first climber to beta flash a 5.12 at index after a near miss the day before. At the time of writing, can I assume that no one had ever onsighted a .12 at index?.

Put the testoterone aside everyone and lets add at least one letter grade to every climb. This can be done by word of mouth. I already do when climbing at index with out of towners. - I will continue to do this.

-----

This is perhaps one of the only areas in the country where this is applicable. This argument is also logical for making an area's ratings harder.

 

Jens -

 

I believe most of the assertions you make here are incorrect. On average I find Jtree ratings more difficult than Index for example go try Baby Apes (Bachar route) or Sole Fusion (Bachar route), Headstone Rock Arete or even Coarse and Buggy. I could go on and on.

 

Try the Gunks - many hard routes with ratings comparable to Index. Open Cockpit, Supercrack even on TR these are hard as hell.

 

I wouldn't believe everything you read in climbing magazines.

 

Yakima ratings and Index ratings seem pretty much in synch to me.

 

PP

 

Damn another weekend at work for me!

[RICHARD_CILLEY]

Its still apretty big deal to flash areal .12.The magazines make it sound like nothing but the reality is another thing.If anyone wants to argue the point,Ill donate my time to belay them on a variety of .12s.I dont think there will be a line . Feelin lucky?I think the ratings at Index are fine.They demand a bit of respect.U dont have that empty feeling U get when u climb routes that are overrated.Not sure,but I think at Peshastin there is a climb called Skyline arete.It used to be rated 4th class.It was horrendous.

[Norsky]

Distel32 said:

MisterE said:

speaking of which - wedding day...

 

That's not sandbagged! It is one or two 10 moves at the begininng then .8-9 to the top.

 

Titanic in Squamish, hardest v3 ever!!

 

Quasar at Smith Only if you aren't a crack climber though.

 

Darth Maul at 11worth is at least one graded harder than stated.

 

I thought Titanic was not bad at all. Just a sharp move and a jug no? Perhaps my height helped. I will say the start to Wedding Day seems stiff for 10b.

[Norsky]

Who's done Watt's Totts? I got shut down at the crux. Perhaps cause I got worked up about cruxing with my feet above the bolt

[bigwalling]

Titanic didn't feel that hard. I would have flashed it if I knew that you lunge in bouldering. I tried to do it static and after a couple trys I just lunged and got it. I will say the starting crimps suck if you fingers are raw! I thought that V4 that starts on an undercling and goes to slopers sure felt tough(also on titanic boulder). But then again I am new to this bouldering thing.

[EWolfe]

Norsky said:

Who's done Watt's Totts? I got shut down at the crux. Perhaps cause I got worked up about cruxing with my feet above the bolt

 

Watts Tots is .11b A0.

[pope]

Peter_Puget said:

Jens said:

 

Index indeed has some of the stiffest ratings anywhere. Even a footwork expert... schooled on Bachar horror shows will tell you this if they have climbed at index.

I just pulled up an about 12 year old magazine stating that Tom Herbert became the first climber to beta flash a 5.12 at index after a near miss the day before. At the time of writing, can I assume that no one had ever onsighted a .12 at index?.

Put the testoterone aside everyone and lets add at least one letter grade to every climb. This can be done by word of mouth. I already do when climbing at index with out of towners. - I will continue to do this.

-----

This is perhaps one of the only areas in the country where this is applicable. This argument is also logical for making an area's ratings harder.

 

Jens -

 

I believe most of the assertions you make here are incorrect. On average I find Jtree ratings more difficult than Index for example go try Baby Apes (Bachar route) or Sole Fusion (Bachar route), Headstone Rock Arete or even Coarse and Buggy. I could go on and on.

 

Try the Gunks - many hard routes with ratings comparable to Index. Open Cockpit, Supercrack even on TR these are hard as hell.

 

I wouldn't believe everything you read in climbing magazines.

 

Yakima ratings and Index ratings seem pretty much in synch to me.

 

PP

 

Damn another weekend at work for me!

 

Baby Apes used to be called 12a, but I think it's been upgraded. Coarse and Buggy seemed right on for the grade. In general, I kind of agree that Index grades are no harder than Yosemite and Joshua Tree grades. Index has got superb friction (can't think of a slick route), but in Yosemite, slick rock and warm weather can make moderate climbs seem really hard.

 

One candidate for the biggest sandbag might be Alley-Oop Chimney in Peshastin. Hang Dog at Castle Rock is a wicked lead. The Nose on Jello Tower is probably 5.11 (according to Peter Croft when I saw him down solo it in 1985). Finishing the Pedestal pitch on Outer Space is tough for 5.6, and the exit on the 1st pitch of Canary is challenging for 5.8.

 

[EWolfe]

Nice auto-sig, Pope!

 

Glad to hear about The Nose. A couple of years ago, I onsighted MF, and then, feeling good about that, went for the onsight of The Nose and got completely spanked. Had to bail and leave a piece. I am usually pretty good at thin fingers, but couldn't figure that one out and was really frustrated, cuz it was only supposed to be one letter grade harder.

 

[Bob_Clarke]

East Face of Chainti Spire.

 

How about Last Waltz or Powder in your eyes at Smith. Now those are tough 12c's.

 

 

[chelle]

ScottP said:

I'll second the Lizard Chimney at Index and add that frickin Blockbuster thing. It spanks me every time.

 

It's 5.7/5.8 guys. And the pro is good. You just need to improve your chimney technique. Although I can see if you're taller than 5.5 and #2 camalots are tight hands for you maybe it would feel harder.

 

Just remember that for us littler people, those "perfect hand/fist jams" like on the flake of Godzilla or on Rattletale are not very secure for us. But we don't get to re-rate the climbs... It think the grades are different for people of different sizes. Maybe we should have a grade system based on different heights and hand sizes.

[klar404]

On hand sizes have you guys climbed "Introductory Offer" at the Bend? It spanked ever "solid" male 10 leader and then the woman with us cruised it! Check it out next time your at Tieton. And ladies, send the men up first and watch 'em squirm!

[chucK]

ehmmic said:

ScottP said:

I'll second the Lizard Chimney at Index and add that frickin Blockbuster thing. It spanks me every time.

 

It's 5.7/5.8 guys. And the pro is good. You just need to improve your chimney technique. Although I can see if you're taller than 5.5 and #2 camalots are tight hands for you maybe it would feel harder.

 

I don't think the Lizard chimney is hard (anymore), just seems like a lot of other people do. Of all the climbs I've heard excuses about, that is probably #1 . Where do you put a #2 camalot on that?

 

You're not talking about Blockbuster being an advantage to being short are you? I think tall helps on that one.

 

A lot of these climbs people are mentioning have a trick to 'em, like Blockbuster and Canary P1, and I guess even Lizard chimney. Once you figure out the trick the rating seems a bit more in line with the norm.

[Distel32]

bigwalling said:

Titanic didn't feel that hard. I would have flashed it if I knew that you lunge in bouldering. I tried to do it static and after a couple trys I just lunged and got it. I will say the starting crimps suck if you fingers are raw! I thought that V4 that starts on an undercling and goes to slopers sure felt tough(also on titanic boulder). But then again I am new to this bouldering thing.

 

Yeah I don't know what it is about titanic, took me at least 10 tries to do it. I flashed that V4 that started off the undercling though

 

Another Squamish sandbag: The Weasel, please tell me somebody out there has tried it! ssoooo hard

[sobo]

Led_Hed said:

Butterbrickle-Peshastin Pinnacles (5.6 I think).

 

Kramar's 1991 guide gives it a 5.8+. His 1996 second edition ups it to 5.9+. No wonder you thought it was a sandbag!

[EWolfe]

Distel32 said:

bigwalling said:

Titanic didn't feel that hard. I would have flashed it if I knew that you lunge in bouldering. I tried to do it static and after a couple trys I just lunged and got it. I will say the starting crimps suck if you fingers are raw! I thought that V4 that starts on an undercling and goes to slopers sure felt tough(also on titanic boulder). But then again I am new to this bouldering thing.

 

Yeah I don't know what it is about titanic, took me at least 10 tries to do it. I flashed that V4 that started off the undercling though

 

Another Squamish sandbag: The Weasel, please tell me somebody out there has tried it! ssoooo hard

 

Nobody boulders. Only you. we can't relate.

[scott_harpell]

And Harpell, you calling Zoom a sport climb?!

 

nah. that was my suggestion for the most sandbagged. they are all hard! yeah that thin crack at the top was intimidating though

[chelle]

chucK said:

ehmmic said:

It's 5.7/5.8 guys. And the pro is good. You just need to improve your chimney technique. Although I can see if you're taller than 5.5 and #2 camalots are tight hands for you maybe it would feel harder.

 

I don't think the Lizard chimney is hard (anymore), just seems like a lot of other people do. Of all the climbs I've heard excuses about, that is probably #1 . Where do you put a #2 camalot on that?

 

You're not talking about Blockbuster being an advantage to being short are you? I think tall helps on that one.

 

A lot of these climbs people are mentioning have a trick to 'em, like Blockbuster and Canary P1, and I guess even Lizard chimney. Once you figure out the trick the rating seems a bit more in line with the norm.

 

Hi Chuck. Too bad they complain about that pitch. It is one of my favorite at Index. #2 cam protects the belay. At the top part before the reach to the ledge it is still decent tight hands for me. If #2 is tight hands for someone, I bet that they get crappy fingers or tips up higher.

 

Nope on your q. about Blockbuster. Was still talking about the buttlips chimney on the Lizard. For me the distance between my knee and my foot is the perfect length for solid chimney knee bars. I've seen taller people have to try to get up it at the wider portion where it really wants to poop you out.