chucK Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Unless you are talking about the "Urban Bypass" variation, I guess we have a difference on what one calls a tenuous foothold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 We have a system, and the rule of the system is supposedly that a route gets it's grade from the hardest move on it. Consider..... Butterballs (Cookie CLiff) MeatGinder (Cookie Cliff) Crescent Arch (Meadows DAFF?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Having only climbed Dreamer, I am not eminently qualified to talk about Darrington grades. That brings up a good point about sandbagging in general. In my mind, something is sandbagged only if it seems substantially harder than similarly rated routes in the same area. So going back to BoC, if I'm a 5.9 climber, new to steep cracks, who got spit off BoC and think it's sandbagged, I really don't have any bearings to make that claim -- I'm probably just saying it's sandbagged to nurse a bruised ego. Rather, if I have climbed Toxic Shock, HoC p3, D-H, Libra Crack, Thin Fingers, and feel that BoC is inconsistent (which it's not), then I could make that claim legitimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Unless you are talking about the "Urban Bypass" variation, I guess we have a difference on what one calls a tenuous foothold. Quite possible. That brings up a good point about sandbagging in general. In my mind, something is sandbagged only if it seems substantially harder than similarly rated routes in the same area. So going back to BoC, if I'm a 5.9 climber, new to steep cracks, who got spit off BoC and think it's sandbagged, I really don't have any bearings to make that claim -- I'm probably just saying it's sandbagged to nurse a bruised ego. Rather, if I have climbed Toxic Shock, HoC p3, D-H, Libra Crack, Thin Fingers, and feel that BoC is inconsistent (which it's not), then I could make that claim legitimately. Yes. Also, doy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 now Thin Fingers at Index has a bizarre rating. The boulder move at the start of 2nd pitch seems way harder than 11a, but the rest of the route has moves at most mid-10, but sustained. I haven't done Colchuck Balanced Rock, but I heard the long crack pitch is similar -- 11a but no individual moves harder than low/mid 10. I think I also heard people saying the 5.8 chimneys there were sandbagged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 The Thin Fingers slab feels impossible and totally sandbagged. Then you see how to do and its 11a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Usually seems like descriptive adjectives allow for a letter or so of grade variance. For example: Pumpy 5.9 might feel like 5.10 Tricky 5.8 might feel like 5.9 Awkward 5.8 might feel like 5.10 last friday I climbed in Cheakamus canyon for the first time. Got on P1 Charlotte's Web. Dr Topo guide calls the pitch tricky 5.8, but it sure felt harder. Squamish Select calls it tricky 5.9, but it also felt a bit harder than that. I climbed it on lead and top rope, and it felt pretty tricky both ways, so I dont think protection was the issue. Routes without adjectives in their descriptions seem to feel more spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Yngve Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 The Thin Fingers slab feels impossible and totally sandbagged. Then you see how to do and its 11a. I think I know how to do it. Step high onto a thin edge with right foot while sidepulling/underclinging with right hand around the corner and pulling on some crystals with your left hand. And I still can't do it. Maybe it's not because I suck, but rather because I don't have good edging shoes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Gary...go up there with a pair of busted up moccs and you will hike that move... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Jens...i completely disagree w/ you...index is no stiffer than seneca, jtree, the gunks, t-wall, stone mountain or any well established area or yosemite...of course if you want to compare it to a joke rating system like one at Owens, or Jacks or Exit 38 its gonna seem stiff...BUT, the key is those areas are off, for whatever reason... it has its "quirks" about itsclimbing...but being local, you gain an appreciation and an ability to handle them... The main thing is that index should keep consistent w/in its own rating scale...ie one 5.10a index climb should feel like another 5.10a index climb...and screw the rest of the climbing areas... People learn to climb in a gym and then think they are all bad ass and don't realize that stuff can be technical, yet still not rated 5.12...Funny thing, when you work the routes at index and send them, they don't feel all that bad...they are technique, not strength based... Long live the "index .11b"!!!!!!!!!!! \ Agreed.. other areas climbs should be lowered a letter grade or two.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 hah. depends on the climb. there are sand-bags even at vantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 How the heck do you do the first move on Leap of Faith at P.G. anyways? Pinky jam! Tape up! Phone Calls From the Dead (11b) @ index. that mantle to the chains is fricking HARD! Yep - climber cleanly till the last move then fell off again and again and again... So I climbed GM to Heart of the Country yesterday with jaredvg. Excellent climb. On the way down we toproped this. I thought for the most part it was hard and really fun! I haven't climbed too many 5.11b routes. I took two laps on it and got it clean the second time. As for the finish... can ANYONE mantle that? I don't get how it is possible. Maybe if your head is really heavy? I got my right hand on the sloper, put my left foot up high, and just levered up until I could grab the chain. So I guess I climbed it at A0. I took another stab at mantling the left part of the slopey ledge and actually stood up, but then could not move to go right towards the anchor, and just fell off backwards in slow-mo. the 10A unprotected start to G-M (at Index) seems sandbagged, even on top-rope NO KIDDING. Holy jebus. Cummins' topo says 10c and even that seems too easy. Standing on nothing while crimping on nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I thought the start of GM was harder than 10a. I thought the book gave it 10d? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Come on Kevbone, I say it right there AND provide a link to a topo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Come on Kevbone, I say it right there AND provide a link to a topo. Thats one persons opinion of the grade.....isnt this thread about sand bagging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 How the heck do you do the first move on Leap of Faith at P.G. anyways? Pinky jam! Tape up! Phone Calls From the Dead (11b) @ index. that mantle to the chains is fricking HARD! Yep - climber cleanly till the last move then fell off again and again and again... So I climbed GM to Heart of the Country yesterday with jaredvg. Excellent climb. On the way down we toproped this. I thought for the most part it was hard and really fun! I haven't climbed too many 5.11b routes. I took two laps on it and got it clean the second time. As for the finish... can ANYONE mantle that? I don't get how it is possible. Maybe if your head is really heavy? I got my right hand on the sloper, put my left foot up high, and just levered up until I could grab the chain. So I guess I climbed it at A0. I took another stab at mantling the left part of the slopey ledge and actually stood up, but then could not move to go right towards the anchor, and just fell off backwards in slow-mo. the 10A unprotected start to G-M (at Index) seems sandbagged, even on top-rope NO KIDDING. Holy jebus. Cummins' topo says 10c and even that seems too easy. Standing on nothing while crimping on nothing. The mantle on Phone Calls is HARD. I did it first go but I fell early doing something stupid on the knobs. I was with a solid 13 climber and he lowered off complaining that he couldn't do it. But not all things in life are easy. I thought the route was good for it's grade. You gotta love every area for what it offers. With that said, there are some routes that you want to do when you first breaking into a grade and others that are best to wait until you are really solid at above the given grade to both enjoy and respect the route. For 11b, PCFTD is best enjoyed when your super solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 If you like mantles go check out the one over the roof on Pretty Vacant. Fun slab climbing to a mantle over the roof then more slab to the anchor. Not a sandbag but still fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 The mantle on Phone Calls is HARD. I did it first go but I fell early doing something stupid on the knobs. I was with a solid 13 climber and he lowered off complaining that he couldn't do it. But not all things in life are easy. I thought the route was good for it's grade. You gotta love every area for what it offers. With that said, there are some routes that you want to do when you first breaking into a grade and others that are best to wait until you are really solid at above the given grade to both enjoy and respect the route. For 11b, PCFTD is best enjoyed when your super solid. So HOW did you do the mantle? I am probably in awe of you. I understand what you're saying. Even so, with two practice runs I almost feel like I could lead it now. With the A0 finish. It's short and bolted, after all. Oh yeah, the bottom part is pretty hard too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 If you like mantles... Hahaha... I don't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimL Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I remember through my left foot up then sucking into the wall really hard. I think it was almpst no hands but it's honestly been a long time. I didn't fall mostly because I had the wrong size pro below me and I didn't want to take a long sideways fall. I'm going to repeat the climb this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Finally climbed BoC this year, definitely not a sandbag at Index. I thought the first big pull up was easy ten and the rest strenuous eight. Perfect hand jams! At Leav it would be a bit of a sandbag. I'd nominate the south face of Jello Tower, only a seven when I first led it. Felt like hard (or a JT) nine the last time I did it. I see its crept up to 8+ in Viktor's latest. Battle of the Bulge (10c) is another, as hard as any other 11a at Fossil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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