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wayne

The "New" Mountaineers?

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Hey Groovy Guys, Groovy Gals!

 

Don't be dissin' now on the Mountaineers, 'cuz they livin' in the future! Check it out! If you gots it inya to be a crag-anarchist and defile your local stones witha metallic trails any which way ya please so ya's can get's up it (without bangin' your noggin), or at least support the movement in that there direction, it seems like the Tacoma Mountaineers gotcha covered RIGHT CHEER! "Prospective intermediate climbing students are especially encouraged to take the course.." Yee ha!

 

http://www.tacomamountaineers.org/activities/sport_climbing.cfm

 

P.S. Shame on ya! Y'all ain't gotta clue!

hillbillies.JPG

Clip 'n Go!!!

you have got to be the world's biggest douchebag...get a life, you retard...BOO!

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OK, that was fun .. . . I should have learned by now to never throw the dawg a bone. Now, back on topic.

 

Lowell makes a good point. It is easy to cast stones, but much more productive to get involved (i.e. more than just posting on cc.com), and change things you feel strongly about. It is not too difficult to make a big impact within clubs (especially small ones like the Skagit Alpine Club :wave: ), if you invest the time and have a good attitude.

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Here's my theory on the club and why things are the way they are why change is happening now if anyone cares.

 

For decades people in the club did dumb shit and pissed other people off. Instead of fixing the situation you had a bunch of dumb, arrogant pricks on a power trip running the club. These clowns told these people to just go screw themselves (some of you unfortunately) and these people couldn't really do anything about it except end up hating them.

 

Then this thing called the internet comes along and all of a sudden a bunch of pissed off people have the opportunity to tell everyone how messed up the club is. New people join the club and realize that the club is messed up too. Some quit because there's just too much bullshit to overcome and they join in on the bashing (rightfully so). Some get pissed off enough to do something about it and chip away at the nonsense. More new blood joins the club and they fall into one of the two categories and the ones who decide do something about it chip away at more nonsense still. And on and on we go...

 

Things take time. The club was incredibly messed up. The club is much, much better and most people are pretty cool. I find myself quite happy with things right now - but I still see some of room for improvement.

 

I don't blame anyone who hates on the club. I hated them too. But I'm glad that I stuck around. I've met some really great people and have learned some really great things along the way.

Edited by Layback

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Hey Groovy Guys, Groovy Gals!

 

Don't be dissin' now on the Mountaineers, 'cuz they livin' in the future! Check it out! If you gots it inya to be a crag-anarchist and defile your local stones witha metallic trails any which way ya please so ya's can get's up it (without bangin' your noggin), or at least support the movement in that there direction, it seems like the Tacoma Mountaineers gotcha covered RIGHT CHEER! "Prospective intermediate climbing students are especially encouraged to take the course.." Yee ha!

 

http://www.tacomamountaineers.org/activities/sport_climbing.cfm

 

P.S. Shame on ya! Y'all ain't gotta clue!

hillbillies.JPG

Clip 'n Go!!!

you have got to be the world's biggest douchebag...get a life, you retard...BOO!

 

Let's face it, the new Mountaineers can be horribly confusing, offering all sorts of contradictory information:

 

Leave No Trace Trainer Courses

The Leave No Trace Trainer Courses provide participants with innovative teaching skills to educate a wide range of students on best practices for low-impact recreation. Participants get a comprehensive overview of Leave No Trace through direct, in-field experience during the two-day overnight course in an outdoor setting. The course covers the principles, application, and ethics of Leave No Trace and includes techniques for educating others. Participants learn to effectively educate their friends, family, and community about Leave No Trace, as well as lead Awareness Workshops.

 

 

Sport Climbing Course, 2010

Revised November 15, 2009

Course code: TBA

Class size minimum: 2

Class size maximum: 10

Non-members allowed enrollment: No

Member cost: $100.00

The Sport Climbing Course, is a program of field instruction designed to teach the fundamental skills required to safely lead on sport (bolted) routes. Instruction includes clipping, anchors, rappelling, and climbing techniques. The course is suggested for gym climbers and scramblers who want to give rock climbing a try and Basic Grads who want to further develop their rock skills and learn to lead.

PREREQUISITES: Applicants must know how to belay. The following proof will be accepted: A Belay Card certificate from any Climbing Gym, a certificate of graduation from the Basic Climbing Course, equivalency status, or have at least passed the Final Exam.

REQUIRED EQUIPMENT: Six quickdraws and /or, slings, clothing, pack, helmet, carabiners, a rope and a variety of other gear.

ELIGIBILITY: The course is open to any person who can pass a belay exam at any climbing gym.

 

 

 

Apparently all one needs is to pass a belay test at the local climbing bym, plus six quick-draws and he can learn to leave "no trace" by clipping up a rap-placed bolt trail? HELP! I'm so confused!

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Apparently all one needs is to pass a belay test at the local climbing bym, plus six quick-draws and he can learn to leave "no trace" by clipping up a rap-placed bolt trail? HELP! I'm so confused!

 

Apparently some can't comprehend the difference between drilling new bolts and simply climbing routes with bolts already in place.

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Apparently all one needs is to pass a belay test at the local climbing bym, plus six quick-draws and he can learn to leave "no trace" by clipping up a rap-placed bolt trail? HELP! I'm so confused!

 

Apparently some can't comprehend the difference between drilling new bolts and simply climbing routes with bolts already in place.

 

"No snowflake in avalanche ever admits responsibility." Let me translate, maya babushka: clipping bolts is voting "Yes!" for sport climbing.

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No beverages sadly. I guess in my semi-coherent rambling I failed to make the point I really wanted to...

 

My point is this: Both the people who left the club (or encountered the club in a bad way) and complained about it on the internet and the people who stayed and changed things acted as change agents in different ways. Without the people outside the club complaining you don't have validation internally for what people are trying to change. The knuckleheads would just carry on as they were as if in a vacuum unaware of the incredibly uncool things they are doing to others in the climbing community.

 

Maybe we've reached a critical point where anyone who would like to be a part of something cool, could do as Wayne just did. That would be rad.

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"No snowflake in avalanche ever admits responsibility." Let met translate, maya babushka: clipping bolts is voting "Yes!" for sport climbing.

 

So, hiking up to the 3 Fingers Lookout is the same as blowing the top off the mountain?

 

And using the Camp Muir shelter the same as hauling lumber and cement up to 10K, and adding permanent, man-made structures there?

 

And driving Highway 20 to WA pass is the same as dynamiting the road to get there?

 

I didn't think so.

 

 

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Apparently all such idiots are in the mountaineers...

 

Never had any positive things happen from any mountaineer. Either neutral or bad. Not exactly a good track record.

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Apparently you have to be so stupid as to pay $100 bucks to have someone tell you how to pick your nose.

 

Thanks to the mountaineers, all idiots need not fear, they have a class for you!

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so.. people dog on the mazamas but i get the impression they are not a 1-to-1 of the mounties..anyone have any feedback on how the two orgs square up?

 

I took their basic course and 90% was a recap of my backpacking life. You get what you pay for most of the time, non-profit with volunteers teaching/assisting/leading.. people do not expect the same as an AMGA, ACMG, AAI course, right? I didn't.

 

 

 

 

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I don't know a thing about the Mazamas.

 

I do know a number of Mountaineers who were active climbers in the club during the 50s and 60s. Back then if you were interested in climbing the Mounties were one of the few choices you had to learn about climbing. Based on the personality of older Mountaineers I know the club was both good and fun.

 

I hear at some point in the 70s the club model or philosophy changed adding strange bureaucracy and standards. My early experiences with the club in the 70s involved skiing at the lodges and taking climbing classes. I eventually decided the club was strange and I wanted out.

 

The climbing standards and education they used at the time didn't match what I read in books about climbing. To be fair I was a teenager hanging out with a bunch of old farts (in their 40s ;) ), and that didn't help. In later years I would run into groups of Mountaineers on climbs in the Cascades. What I saw did not inspire me or make me think things had changed.

 

I have heard the club has put some effort into updating climbing classes and standards over the last few years, but I've also heard about encounters climbers I know have had with Mountaineers that make me question the updates. Things do take time of course.

 

I think the Mountaineers have an important historic impact on climbing in the Northwest, but I'm unsure on how to judge them now. At least I don't see an advantage in rejoining the club at this time.

Edited by Feck

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I appreciate that Pope was able to say the same thing as Raindawg in a much more civil manner. I gotta give a big thumbs down for Dawg's inflammatory and lame attempt at putdown humor, the antithesis to rational discussion.

 

Pope, you should think of sport climbing as a bridge sport to take gym climbers outside, and set them up for more adventurous climbing in their future. An environmental approach to outdoor recreation is a learned behavior, and any number of classes can lead the uninitiated in that direction, even a Mountaineer's sport climbing class.

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I'm curious to know why being "rap-placed" makes a line of bolts any less "leave no trace" than if they were placed on lead. Because that's the obvious implication of adding that adjectival.

 

Personally I find "leave no trace" to be a bit of a buzz-phrase in this day and age - something people say to make them feel better about their personal ethics.

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Pope, you should think of sport climbing as a bridge sport to take gym climbers outside, and set them up for more adventurous climbing in their future.

 

That's exactly right, Off. The Mountaineers climbing program generally emphasizes trad climbing on alpine routes. The Basic class teaches people the skills they need to safely follow on very easy alpine rock climbs, and participate on easy glacier climbs. The intermediate program teaches people to lead on multi-pitch, trad routes, augment glacier travel skills, and move on to alpine ice and winter/mixed climbing.

 

The sports climbing class is generally offered as a bridge for people who learned enough as basic students to say follow on the Tooth or Ingalls and then want to move on to leading, but would like more time on real rock, or get some comfort leading without investing in a rack or learning to place pro off the bat. Many choose to skip sport climbing and just go straight into trad leading. Some basic class graduates leave the Mounties and learn to lead on trad all on their own, never going into the intermediate program. Others leave and become sport climbers all on their own.

 

The sports climbing class does not teach people to drill bolts and set up routes. Nor do its instructors generally do that.

 

Structured courses by a big club/organization are not for everyone. They are a route for some to learn.

 

 

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If we are talking climbing clubs... I would LOVE to see a climbing club in the States that offers huts and hostel styled accommodations at popular climbing destinations. Sort of what they do in the boating world with Yacht clubs, once you become a member at a local club you cheap/free access to other Yacht clubs. In the PNW there could be clubs near Smith, Index, L-worth etc. You'd have to pay annual fee to be a member to your local club and donate some time up keeping the local club house, but when you travel you could stay at other clubs free of charge. Fantasy for sure but I would pay for this sort of thing.

 

 

 

Don't the Mounties have a cabin or two? At least one up at Snoqualmie Central? Whats that thing used for?

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How did this thread manage to get dawged? Oh, right, "sport climbing".

 

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna let a chance to tell you that I don't like sport climbing slip by.

 

never gonna give! never gonna give!

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I never understood why would be hard men criticized the no rock shoes allowed when not needed rule of thumb. I always thought it was great training for the alpine.

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Don't the Mounties have a cabin or two? At least one up at Snoqualmie Central? Whats that thing used for?

 

The Cabin between Ski Acres (Summit Central) and the Summit burned down a number of years ago.

 

The Mountaineers have a cabin at Stevens Pass and Baker Ski Areas. They also maintain a hut near Stampede Pass called the Meany Lodge.

 

The Meany Lodge has it's own ski area. They maintain a rope tow with a 500 foot vertical. There is a short beginner tow next to it. The big tow takes some practice. The rope runs at about 20 mph, so you need to learn how to use it.

 

Meany Hill

Meany_Hut0001.JPG

The picture shows the main hill, but you can traverse to other runs.

 

You'll want some thick leather mitts and one of these.

O_C_Tow_Griper_Shot_copy.jpg

 

 

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Taking pot shots at "the club" on cc.com is good sport, but groups like the Mountaineers, Boealps, Mazama's, WAC, Skagit Alpine Club or Bushwhackers offer climbing instruction that is enjoyed by many and I believe that all of these clubs promote at least some measure of individual participation in stewardship which I, personally, think is a good thing. The Mountaineers and their members donated a large amount to the Washington Climbers Coalition's Index fund raising effort last year.

 

The Mountaineers have supported a variety of conservation programs over the years and their publications are excellent. They have also hosted the Northwest Mountaineering Journal (NWMJ.ORG) the last several years, and they have hosted a lot of really great events at their new Magnuson Park clubhouse.

 

I can understand somebody who may complain when large groups descend on the Icicle, and the kinds of criticism's referred to by Layback are certainly not without merit. I've kept my distance over the years. However, over the last few years I've been creeping toward more engagement as I see the Club making real movement toward becoming more modern, engaged, or whatever it is that they are becoming.

 

The ice wall looks cool. Wayne's contribution to their program is going to be great.

 

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I have cursed the Mountaineers in the past when competing for the same terrain while guiding or teaching in places like the Icicle or just climbing in Vantage and seeing the over use. Generally not fair but easy to blame them for everything bad in the mountains. Done it myself.

 

Harder to take the time to actually see what they are doing today and look at their projects and programs and the people they touch.

 

Joe (Layback) is a man of his word and made things easy for me to get involved. Easy to do with people like Joe, Jim Nelson, Wayne and Jessica already there with a host of others.

 

The first benefit some will be able to take advantage of is a few meters of bolted dry tool routes locally. That was worth the entry fee to me.

 

If you haven't been by the club house recently and are in that part of Seattle (Sandpoint) it is worth a visit...bring your rock shoes! I've been at this awhile and learned something useful tonight about climbing. How bad can that it be?

 

Big groups aren't for everyone. And generally not my cup of tea but something "new" going on at the Mountaineers. At least for me it is worth the time to check it out.

 

 

 

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