JayB Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 And speaking of Seattle bus drivers making 70k a year, have you seen what those people have to put up with on a daily basis? They earn that money. There's plenty of people that'd be more than happy to drive them at a pay-scale that would allow them to preserve current service levels. That's really all that matters if the reason we're spending public money on a bus system is to provide transport as efficiently as possible. If the primary objective it to provide a class of public sector workers with a secure, comfortable living, and transporting the public is a secondary consideration - then the sky's the limit. Why not cut services another ~30% and pay them $90K on average? Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland... Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine. Just a reminder: We're talking about state and local budget shortfalls. Nothing that anyone at the state and local has any discretion over is going to have any effect whatsoever on any of the macro trends that you'll go to your grave impotently railing on about. In order to deliver the current level of services, state and local officials have a menu consisting of three options. The can raise taxes, cut services, and/or cut compensation. That's all that they can influence, and that's really all that it makes sense to discuss in the context of funding state and local government. Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. ...or pass reform legislation that reduces the need for services, then cut those service. Small but important omission. Guess its one that lives in 'rootcauseland'. Well within reach, however, IMO. But then, I'm not a 'conservative'. I'm not quite sure how legalizing drugs is going to reduce the demand for public transport but I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 There's plenty of people that'd be more than happy to drive them at a pay-scale that would allow them to preserve current service levels. That's really all that matters if the reason we're spending public money on a bus system is to provide transport as efficiently as possible. If the primary objective it to provide a class of public sector workers with a secure, comfortable living, and transporting the public is a secondary consideration - then the sky's the limit. Why not cut services another ~30% and pay them $90K on average? Seriously. The union rep job would would be yours if you'd simply boost those numbers just a tad....say cut services 50% and boost pay to $ay, little over $100,000. The line of educated people looking for any that work, your unemployed engineers, industrial and Mfg managers, ie, those who didn't recognize that non-productive government jobs was the growth industry to get into out of college - would grow even longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 " Most importantly, it will offer relief to taxpayers who feel the drip, drip, drip of the least fair tax code in America. The poorest 20 percent of Washington families currently pay 17.3 percent of their income in state taxes. The highest-earning one percent of families in the state have a "burden" of just 2.6 percent. Our middle class families pay four times as much as the very wealthy." Oh yes, bus drivers making 70k are clearly the problem ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland... Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine. Just a reminder: We're talking about state and local budget shortfalls. Nothing that anyone at the state and local has any discretion over is going to have any effect whatsoever on any of the macro trends that you'll go to your grave impotently railing on about. In order to deliver the current level of services, state and local officials have a menu consisting of three options. The can raise taxes, cut services, and/or cut compensation. That's all that they can influence, and that's really all that it makes sense to discuss in the context of funding state and local government. Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. That's right folks, you heard it here first. Despite the fact that these "fiscal crises of the State" are happening simultaneously at the municipal and national level throughout the industrialized world as a result of the same failed policies, we're going to solve the problem right here in King County. And not only that, but we're going to intensify the dynamics generated by those same failed policies to fix the problem. Funny your provincial outlook didn't prevail when you were breathlessly cheerleading globalization. Yeah, "keeping it local" is a great way to help frame your argument in these either/or, black/white, good/bad terms while absolving your failed project of any responsibility for creating the mess. Thanks for not helping. Typical Republican... Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. I'm always amused at the irony of these little quips in that if such an analysis did exist and you actually read it, it would probably go a lot further in explaining the real world than your cocktail napkin bullshit. Edited September 23, 2010 by prole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 And speaking of Seattle bus drivers making 70k a year, have you seen what those people have to put up with on a daily basis? They earn that money. There's plenty of people that'd be more than happy to drive them at a pay-scale that would allow them to preserve current service levels. That's really all that matters if the reason we're spending public money on a bus system is to provide transport as efficiently as possible. If the primary objective it to provide a class of public sector workers with a secure, comfortable living, and transporting the public is a secondary consideration - then the sky's the limit. Why not cut services another ~30% and pay them $90K on average? Seriously. why not pay them $5/hour if we can? let's put a few more millions people out of work and I bet we can pay them $4/hour to do the same job .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 3 billion dead serfs are laughing their asses off right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 In the middle ages there were toll roads, toll bridges, private fire department, only the rich went to school, etc .. I think you have perfectly captured JayB's political agenda: neo-feudalism. Then clearly a new round of Enclosure Acts are in order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 What the fuck do you think neoliberal globalization is?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 So what, exactly, are you and your co-ego bitching about? Feudalism solved! Welcome to the new Enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Once you tether yourself back to earth and stop drifting around the heavens of Rootcauseland... Yeah, you folks would sure like that wouldn't you? Down the old memory-hole, eh? Nothing to see here. Back to the ol' tax-cuts, deregulation, privatization, union-busting, and the rest for us. Yep, for as much as you pretend can't abide Palin and the rest Jay, I'd say the Party of No (Fucking Idea) suits you just fine. Just a reminder: We're talking about state and local budget shortfalls. Nothing that anyone at the state and local has any discretion over is going to have any effect whatsoever on any of the macro trends that you'll go to your grave impotently railing on about. In order to deliver the current level of services, state and local officials have a menu consisting of three options. The can raise taxes, cut services, and/or cut compensation. That's all that they can influence, and that's really all that it makes sense to discuss in the context of funding state and local government. Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. That's right folks, you heard it here first. Despite the fact that these "fiscal crises of the State" are happening simultaneously at the municipal and national level throughout the industrialized world as a result of the same failed policies, we're going to solve the problem right here in King County. And not only that, but we're going to intensify the dynamics generated by those same failed policies to fix the problem. Funny your provincial outlook didn't prevail when you were breathlessly cheerleading globalization. Yeah, "keeping it local" is a great way to help frame your argument in these either/or, black/white, good/bad terms while absolving your failed project of any responsibility for creating the mess. Thanks for not helping. Typical Republican... Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. I'm always amused at the irony of these little quips in that if such an analysis did exist and you actually read it, it would probably go a lot further in explaining the real world than your cocktail napkin bullshit. I'm always amused by the fact that whenever the subject turns to things that are concrete and specific, like taxes and budgets, you invariably go "meta" and take refuge in a set tangential articles of faith. "What's 2 + 2?" "The very symbols that you're using to frame your question encapsulate a set of concretizing western intellectual constructs that have persistently subverted and undermined the...blah, blah, blah." My evil homonym shares your outlook but at least he coughs up a straight answer every once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. I'm always amused at the irony of these little quips in that if such an analysis did exist and you actually read it, it would probably go a lot further in explaining the real world than your cocktail napkin bullshit. I'm always amused by the fact that whenever the subject turns to things that are concrete and specific, like taxes and budgets, you invariably go "meta" and take refuge in a set tangential articles of faith. "What's 2 + 2?" "The very symbols that you're using to frame your question encapsulate a set of concretizing western intellectual constructs that have persistently subverted and undermined the...blah, blah, blah." My evil homonym shares your outlook but at least he coughs up a straight answer every once in a while. Well, the short answer is I simply find number-crunching with a serial data-mining cherry picker with a lousy track record for intellectual honesty boring as all hell. But don't kid yourself or anyone else, despite your appeals to "the data", anything you post is always rooted in ideological "articles of faith". It's simply more interesting looking at your unexamined premises and faulty assumptions than dig through your info-garbage to find the obfuscations, omissions, and distortions. j_b seems to do just fine on his own in that department, though sometimes you make it easy. Edited September 23, 2010 by prole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Mmmmkay.... Prole's pro-audacious propensity for professing the obvious punctuates again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Thanks for the meta-analysis, though. Would have been better if you'd spiced it up with something about heternormative neoclassical class-imperialism, IMO. I'm always amused at the irony of these little quips in that if such an analysis did exist and you actually read it, it would probably go a lot further in explaining the real world than your cocktail napkin bullshit. I'm always amused by the fact that whenever the subject turns to things that are concrete and specific, like taxes and budgets, you invariably go "meta" and take refuge in a set tangential articles of faith. "What's 2 + 2?" "The very symbols that you're using to frame your question encapsulate a set of concretizing western intellectual constructs that have persistently subverted and undermined the...blah, blah, blah." My evil homonym shares your outlook but at least he coughs up a straight answer every once in a while. Well, the short answer is I simply find number-crunching with a serial data-mining cherry picker with a lousy track record for intellectual honesty boring as all hell. But don't kid yourself or anyone else, despite your appeals to "the data", anything you post is always rooted in ideological "articles of faith". It's simply more interesting looking at your unexamined premises and faulty assumptions than dig through your info-garbage to find the obfuscations, omissions, and distortions. j_b seems to do just fine on his own in that department, though sometimes you make it easy. Self-parody bordering on performance art. Bravo! Is this how you play chess, too? "Pawn E7 to E5" "Rather than demeaning myself by participating in a pre-formalized and decontextualized aggression ritual that simultaneously dramatizes and reinforces essentializing relics of feudal class hierarchies..." Yipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crux Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I've been away too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 WHY DOES THE EARTH MOVE FOR FREE! CHARGE THAT BITCH RENT! Jay_B needs his internet access mother goddess cunt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2013020975_danny29.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 Sorry, Off! Looks like class warfare will have to wait until papa Gates has departed. Not. Even. Close. Measure Vote Vote % Yes 493,762 34.41 % No 940,970 65.59 % Total Votes 1,434,732 100.00% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Sorry, Off! Looks like class warfare will have to wait until papa Gates has departed. Not. Even. Close. wear that stupid proud fairweather! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 you know you live in a virtuous state when a rich guy can't persuade the common man to pick his pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Sorry, Off! Looks like class warfare will have to wait until papa Gates has departed. Not. Even. Close. Measure Vote Vote % Yes 493,762 34.41 % No 940,970 65.59 % Total Votes 1,434,732 100.00% shouldn't you be gloating more about the evil taxes on coke, snickers n' aqua-fina getting their just reward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 you know you live in a virtuous state when a rich guy can't persuade the common man to pick his pocket yet the dumbasses can make fun of the smart for being "elite" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 What can I say? People are dumb? The whole thrust of the NO campaign was that they'd be coming for you middle class people next! Well, that 2/3 super majority business pretty much guarantees against that, eh? Ah well, just another brick in the house of the coming double dip recession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal_Con Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Not really my problem moving to Canada in January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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