First Ascents

[Dane]

The "line".

 

 

 

[bstach]

Ask Fred.

[Dane]

Ask Fred.

 

One thing is for sure, partners and 2nds aren't an part of Fred's conscious mindset. A Iconoclast.

[pope]

The "line".

 

 

 

Real purdy. Even a 1976 winter ascent (Carlos Buhler) on that one.

[JoshK]

DEFINENTLY for the chicks...that is the primary reason for FA's. Nothing gets girls more excited than a story about climbing something abscure when they have no idea what you are talking about. You know you have them wraped around your finger when they reply "why would anybody do that?"

[Dane]

Real purdy. Even a 1976 winter ascent (Carlos Buhler) on that one.

 

Yep and no question they had it in real winter conditions!

But Mark Whalen and Carlos giving credit where it is due. Mark (a full UIAGM guide) and his wife Wendy own Dream Catcher heli ski operartions in Bella Cola these days. Incredible effort in 1976 and nothing to scoff at today but they did not do a winter ascent of the original line. Carlos candidly told me shortly after the climb that they had bypassed the original finish by going further left and climbing what is now the more commonly used, shorter and easier finish. Close mind you, but not the "line". Two different finishes have been done in winter that I know of but the original Lowe/Jones line of Super Coulior still awaits a FWA last I heard.

 

Misinformation (unintentional of not) like what has been assumed on Super Couloir is one of the reasons I think the idea of "undocumented" climbs is lacking in forthought. History, tradition and documented, detailed information on major climbs have always been a signifigant part of alpinism.

 

[rocky_joe]

 

I've lived this nightmare so many times. and yet, an FA is still something I want to achieve.

 

(thanks to layton for capturing my frustration so prefectly!)

 

Edited December 25, 2009 by rocky_joe

[montypiton]

The really cool thing is, the truly quality lines eventually end up in guidebooks anyway, and who really cares who climbed it FIRST? I know for a fact that I have been credited (at least by the National Park Service) with "first ascent" of lines on which I've found old rusty pitons in place! (example: Devils Tower, Wyoming, Mr. Clean, 1976 - the pitons were most likely from a 1950s era event during which the M&CWTC - Mountain & Cold Weather Tactics Corps - swarmed over the Tower like an anthill for a week or so...what's even worse is that I coauthored the guidebook in which that credit was published! Shame on me!!!) I've had the fortune to grow up just a smidge in the interim, and now believe that beta can be provided for subsequent climbers in a less ego-pumping way. If "fame" wasn't part of the picture, we might see fewer "misguided" attempts on routes of "dubious" quality, using "controversial" methods... And no, I DON'T wanna start beating that dead horse here - this is a remarkably high-quality thread so far,and my Christmas Wish is that it stays that way!!

[Dane]

 

Merry Christmas Curt!

 

who really cares who climbed it FIRST?

 

Many of the really good lines require some real effort just to find let alone get up. Generally those involved in the 1st ascent care that the efforts do get documented. Fred could be used as an extreme example of that thought process. Your guide book reference is a good example. Obviously the climbs get a reference in the guide book but not having the documented 1st ascent info enclosed in the guide book as well leaves a climbing guide half done imo. I really do think any climb is nothing without a human reference. Would seem the first ascent party is the human connection to refer to.

[Bug]

The really cool thing is, the truly quality lines eventually end up in guidebooks anyway, and who really cares who climbed it FIRST? I know for a fact that I have been credited (at least by the National Park Service) with "first ascent" of lines on which I've found old rusty pitons in place! (example: Devils Tower, Wyoming, Mr. Clean, 1976 - the pitons were most likely from a 1950s era event during which the M&CWTC - Mountain & Cold Weather Tactics Corps - swarmed over the Tower like an anthill for a week or so...what's even worse is that I coauthored the guidebook in which that credit was published! Shame on me!!!) I've had the fortune to grow up just a smidge in the interim, and now believe that beta can be provided for subsequent climbers in a less ego-pumping way. If "fame" wasn't part of the picture, we might see fewer "misguided" attempts on routes of "dubious" quality, using "controversial" methods... And no, I DON'T wanna start beating that dead horse here - this is a remarkably high-quality thread so far,and my Christmas Wish is that it stays that way!!

Don't be too hard on yourself.

I found an old route in the b'root with old rusty iron pins. We named it "Bitterroota" in honor of the first ascent party but were given credit for it in the guide.

[Kimmo]

Mark (a full UIAGM guide) and his wife Wendy own Dream Catcher heli ski operartions in Bella Cola these days.

 

you ever been? how is the heli skiing in bella coola?

[Dane]

The LINE! Pick a line..any line! Lots of them still available and in WA:) Thanks to John Scurlock's photos!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From a couple of guys who know what a line is! Needs a second as well.

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=442340

 

[kevbone]

Pick a line..any line!

 

 

You sure? Any line? Even a bolted line?

[Dane]

I am hoping to stick to mountaineering on this topic, but am looking forward to all discourse (except bolts...)

 

What part of that request did you miss Kevin?

Traditional mountaineering, which is what my previous post was encouraging, has never accepted bolts being used on FAs. There are very, very few (if any) alpine climbs that require the use of bolts if the climbing is within the climber's abilities. The "line" by definition is a natural weakness.

 

How about we honor Wayne's request that the discourse stay off the subject of bolts on this thread?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sefton]

those look pretty sweet Dane )

[wayne]

Still waiting to hear from Blake, Darrin, Rat etc...

[genepires]

they are too busy doing FA's right now, except for Darrin who is changing a poopy diaper.

Edited December 29, 2009 by genepires

[JasonG]

C'mon Wayne, was I right about the picture you posted near the beginning?

[wayne]

Not sure, I am on the road. It is behind Mesachie though. Good looking winter fas for sure

I am trying to figure Danes pics out

[John Frieh]

I am trying to figure Danes pics out

 

First one is Booker NE face

 

Second one is Luna N face

 

[billcoe]

LOL!

[Dane]

By JS captions 'cuz I have no clue past that.

Booker

Goldenhorn

Larabee

Luna

Phantom Spire

Tupshin

 

Left click and the name should be in the properties link.

[John Frieh]

Left click and the name should be in the properties link.

 

Some lines you instantly recognize

[Blake]

 

 

 

 

The top one has been climbed multiple times, but probably not in winter. Mostly 4th/low 5th and extremely loose/not-so-fun.

 

I climbed a couple different (summer) route on the bottom one, and watched it spontaneously shed rocks 2,000' down the north face when standing at the base.

 

 

Wayne, I started climbing when living in Stehekin and some of the most obvious-looking routes i'd see on a daily basis had not been climbed. (SE Ridge of Buckner, E ridge of Tupshin, Dark->Bonanza traverse, Megalodon Ridge on Goode) So I think doing new routes began as just a way to climb to the top of a cool-looking mountain via an interesting and logical line. Since then I have definitely grown in my appreciation for the unknown/exploration element to new routes. I like the feeling of starting up a wall and thinking that it's just me, my partner, our gear, and our resourcefullness to make it to the top. No topo, no guide, and maybe it wont be within our abilities. But there's only one way to find out... My favorite new routes have been ones that featured good teamwork and maybe a moment or two of doubt. IE doubting if the next pitch/headwall/moat crossing would "go" or not. I love it when there is just enough gear to be safe and just enough cracks or features to make an impossible/improbable looking section turn out to be doable.

 

I contributed an article to the NorthWest Mountaineering Journal

#5 about this general topic Link

 

What were your thoughts after climbing Buck Mtn and reading that the north ridge had been climbed?

[Dane]

The top one has been climbed multiple times, but probably not in winter.

 

Two points I was attempting to make by the pictures. (and I can't figure out why they don't all show up)

 

First I suspect all the summits shown and mentioned have been climbed...a lot. I doubt many have had winter ascents and I'd bet on the fact that there are several major lines in each photo that have never been done and many never even attempted.

 

Alpine climbing is all about conditions. What might well be crap in summer might be exceptional in winter.

 

For those looking for real adventures you now have a picture of it. I thought some before posting the pictures. Of course anyone wanting to get on them first will tell it is all crap. That is how it works.