RuMR Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 has just gotten into climbing (1 day outside, few weeks in the gym) and just watched the JackO stint and asked "So how hard is the Salathe?" I'm trying to relate to him what a sustained wide crack feels like for your first time ever...he's not "getting" it...he keeps looking at me with that look that says "but its rated less than 5.10 how bad could it be"... how best to describe this to someone who has only been in the gym... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 take him to the uw rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 "see that curb and gutter on the edge of the street? Crawl with your hands, elbows, knees, and feet tight in the gutter for eight blocks wearing your harness with a rack of big pro and dragging a rope with eight pounds tied to it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Take him to Tieton and make him lead First Blood. It's only 5.8 after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Keeping in mind, of course that Jack was ropegunned up most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 take him to the uw rock Wow, that will show him, cause the UW rock is so trad. Take your dumbass buddy to midnight, and fuck him up good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingkiwi1 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I can't think of anything to which the experience of climbing a true OW (fist<x<body width, where x=the width of the crack) for the first time compares. For most, it's among the most frustrating experiences they'll ever have. For a few, it's among the most exhilirating. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground. fk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Have him boulder a chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 has just gotten into climbing (1 day outside, few weeks in the gym) and just watched the JackO stint and asked "So how hard is the Salathe?" I'm trying to relate to him what a sustained wide crack feels like for your first time ever...he's not "getting" it...he keeps looking at me with that look that says "but its rated less than 5.10 how bad could it be"... how best to describe this to someone who has only been in the gym... Rudy I can think of no finer noobie awkward crack than the short and "easy" first pitch of the lizzard at the Great Northern Slab. Then move over to the Libra crack, I mean it's "only" .10a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 That's actually the perfect suggestion Bronco, neither of those look like much, do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I bet Classic Crack in Leavenworth would prove an eye opening 5.8. I realize it is not quite a "sustained wide crack," but I've seen plenty of climbers stumped by it. The full GM (not Heart of the Country) would be another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 there is some 5.8 ow at careno crags, about 50ft or so anyone know what I'm talking about....? that was fuckin' tough for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 If he's been climbing for a couple of weeks and only once outside, wtf is he doing passing judgement on any route at any rating? Tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about yet and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crack Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 so then take his ass up there. jack osborne made it up/got roped gunned/whatever simply because he wanted to and he made it happen. he didn't tag the summit because he climbed the fuckin' elevator shaft at macy's in the rain with a sack of potatos strapped to his nuts; no shit he didn't know shit. if you maintain and keep yourself in good hands you'll be prepared for wherever if you need to be(please remember to always play smart and responsibily. that way, we can just laugh about it later rather than having to yank your shit off the wall). you got one of your climbin' bros who's got the vision! if you really believe in all of that hooie-bo-jookie about it being about the journey and not the destination, then get psyched and lead the way. a good trip is what it's all about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Anderson Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 The downside of experience and knowledge is that by defining how good you are/difficult things are, people tend to self limit. The upside of being new (at least for some people) is that they don't know enough to self-limit. Once you've explained the physical difficulties of why an offwidth ain't like a face climb, any more energy spent convincing your friend that they really are horribly difficult will just self-limit him. Really, offwidth's are strenuous, but less so for those who get the technique and like wrasslin' with the rock. Mebbe he's one of those guys. Seems like a wonderful time to give him the opportunity to excel at a type of climbing that most people convince themselves is to hard before they ever try. That said, offwidth's are more strenous because of the following: On a normal face climb, the inability to do a move is either because you just can't support yourself on a particular hold or the next move just feels/is to difficult. You may over grip to compensate, but who the hell cares, it's just your forearms which don't require much blood. If you can't do the next move, it's likely more clear because the next hold is defined, you more or less get to it or you don't (I know, an over simplification). You don't spend time trying to hold on to the blank rock between the hold you're on and the hold you want to get to. In offwidth climbing however there are very few "holds" (or more accurately body squeezes) that you are just plain unable to use to hold yourself, at least for a very short period of time. But they are insecure, especially without the correct technique. Because of that, you overgrip, just like on face climbs, but you do so with your entire body, instead of just your forearms. Additionally, the best holds or body squeezes are ill-defined, and one tends to waste a fair amount of energy sqeezing in a less than effective manner. As a result, way more blood is used, and it is far easier to get physically exhausted. Additionally, you can almost always do "the next move," unfortunately, "the next move" that you can do when an offwidth gets difficult is probably just a thrutch a couple of inches up, which deposits you a) not very far from your last move, requiring a whole bunch of these extremely difficult moves and b) in exactly the same desperate position you were in a second ago. This compounds the overgripping with your entire body problem. Add to that the fact that the grovelly nature of the climbing is counterintuitive to many people and that abrasians quickly become disincentives to using the most effective technique and you have a strenous form of climing that many people fear and shun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Off-widths aside, what about exposure? Your buddy needs to get a lot of air under him and then imagine doing that for days without relent. He might find difficulty and type of climbing take a back seat to plain old fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 The downside of experience and knowledge is that by defining how good you are/difficult things are, people tend to self limit. The upside of being new (at least for some people) is that they don't know enough to self-limit. Once you've explained the physical difficulties of why an offwidth ain't like a face climb, any more energy spent convincing your friend that they really are horribly difficult will just self-limit him. Really, offwidth's are strenuous, but less so for those who get the technique and like wrasslin' with the rock. Mebbe he's one of those guys. Seems like a wonderful time to give him the opportunity to excel at a type of climbing that most people convince themselves is to hard before they ever try. That said, offwidth's are more strenous because of the following: On a normal face climb, the inability to do a move is either because you just can't support yourself on a particular hold or the next move just feels/is to difficult. You may over grip to compensate, but who the hell cares, it's just your forearms which don't require much blood. If you can't do the next move, it's likely more clear because the next hold is defined, you more or less get to it or you don't (I know, an over simplification). You don't spend time trying to hold on to the blank rock between the hold you're on and the hold you want to get to. In offwidth climbing however there are very few "holds" (or more accurately body squeezes) that you are just plain unable to use to hold yourself, at least for a very short period of time. But they are insecure, especially without the correct technique. Because of that, you overgrip, just like on face climbs, but you do so with your entire body, instead of just your forearms. Additionally, the best holds or body squeezes are ill-defined, and one tends to waste a fair amount of energy sqeezing in a less than effective manner. As a result, way more blood is used, and it is far easier to get physically exhausted. Additionally, you can almost always do "the next move," unfortunately, "the next move" that you can do when an offwidth gets difficult is probably just a thrutch a couple of inches up, which deposits you a) not very far from your last move, requiring a whole bunch of these extremely difficult moves and b) in exactly the same desperate position you were in a second ago. This compounds the overgripping with your entire body problem. Add to that the fact that the grovelly nature of the climbing is counterintuitive to many people and that abrasians quickly become disincentives to using the most effective technique and you have a strenous form of climing that many people fear and shun. No matt, you missed what i was saying...I specifically said people's FIRST time in an offwidth and that i was trying to relate what its like to him...i know how to climb offwidths, blah blah blah...but the first time that one ventures into an ow is a real eyeopener that there is absolutely NO comparison between gym ratings and a 100 ft offwidth pitch... You are right...Face climbing is totally intuitive...its a ladder...particularly in the gym...if you don't know the particular technique for an offwidth of a given size, its extremely frustrating and draining... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 rudy- have him watch this movie: http://www.szafagra.com/index.php?pages=filmy and click on freerider. this guy, who can't do 11d ow did several 8c and 8c+ routes on limestone. i think he also did 8b os. while he was able to os some of the 12d higher up he stated he was never so wasted in his life as after trying the 11d ow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimsey Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Are you talking about the Salathe or the Steck Salathe? I don't know who Jacko is but I know there is a big difference between those two routes. A talanted beginner could second the Steck free after a few weeks in the valley. Only a couple of people have ever freed the Salathe. But jugging it is no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Tell him to go do it. Some people learn from others experience and others must see it for themselves. The school of hard knocks may be right for your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Tell him to go do it. The school of hard knocks may be right for your friend. This is obviously true; I mean, he *is* Rudy's friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 i'm gonna knock you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 rudy- have him watch this movie: http://www.szafagra.com/index.php?pages=filmy and click on freerider. this guy, who can't do 11d ow did several 8c and 8c+ routes on limestone. i think he also did 8b os. while he was able to os some of the 12d higher up he stated he was never so wasted in his life as after trying the 11d ow. This polish guy was below my friend cody who did freerider this fall. Apparently he onsighted almost all of the route, real smooth and powerful in like a day. He then got totally and completely shut down by the offwidth. Apparently, blood, screams and tears over many days. I heard that he just gave up after losing a pint of blood in the thing and swore he was never going back to yosemite. Cody has some funny ass pictures of the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 god....i wish i could get a translation of that vid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 rudy- have him watch this movie: http://www.szafagra.com/index.php?pages=filmy and click on freerider. this guy, who can't do 11d ow did several 8c and 8c+ routes on limestone. i think he also did 8b os. while he was able to os some of the 12d higher up he stated he was never so wasted in his life as after trying the 11d ow. This polish guy was below my friend cody who did freerider this fall. Apparently he onsighted almost all of the route, real smooth and powerful in like a day. He then got totally and completely shut down by the offwidth. Apparently, blood, screams and tears over many days. I heard that he just gave up after losing a pint of blood in the thing and swore he was never going back to yosemite. Cody has some funny ass pictures of the guy. tell your buddy he is full of shit. simple, this is not the story at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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