real trad ratings

[glassgowkiss]

last couple of weekends i had a chance to top-rope a few classic trad pitches at squamish and index. guess what- if you don't have to stop and place gear these things are just a walk. so the grades of the routes include placing pro. my point is that people who say, for example a 12a trad is harder then 12a sport are full of shit. 12a is 12a, and 13a crack is not any harder then 13a sport.

anybody, who wants to argue is a weak ass punter, who wants to excuse his/hers lack of power endurance and skill. btw, still think squish ratings are like a purring kitten- soft

[swaterfall]

I guess it makes sense to make such a broad generalization about ratings based on TRing a few lines in Squish and Index.

 

Oh no... wait. It doesn't and you're a foo.

 

But then again I'm a weak ass punter.

[Peter_Puget]

Hey Bob what routes?

[Dru]

bob said on live-the-vision just the other day

i was expecting the only logical answer to my silly, yet simple question. and the answer would be to fu-ck-off. the same lack of balls to tell me that is limmiting your climbing.... simply, your argument is quite weak. btw, if you don't tighten your sphincter so much your panties won't bunch up and you'll enjoy life more. werd

 

I think this also applies here. also i am interested in what 13a crack Bob managed to top rope at squamish

[glassgowkiss]

so dru, if u don't know the background don't participate in the disussion. ltv comments have nothing to do with this one. part of the story about ltv is i received a couple of email saying something like "sons of bitches kicke our ass on our own turf". but on the other hand even though everybody in canmore is thinking that nobody had balls to say it out loud. but you are cofusing the topics here- not for the first time i guess. the point of my spew was that if you top-rope something like exasporator it's only like 5.9. and sentry box is purring like a kitten.rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Wallstein]

Bob, I think you are generaly right but I think there is a greater variance in the ratings of traditional pitches. Also the amount of time needed to become of strong traditional climber is much longer. I know alot of people that have been climbing for less than 3 years that can climb 5.12 sport. I can't say I know anyone who has only climbed for 3 years that can climb 5.12 trad. To me that says trad climbing is more difficult even if the ratings are the same.

 

Lets take the Narrow arrow direct for example. (the last pitch was the first 5.10 at index) That thing is pretty dam burly. Compare it to any 5.10 at Exit 38. There is no way these routes are the same difictulty. I am pretty certain I know how to climb OW pretty well and I was huffin and puffin to send it. However I can get up any 5.10 at E38 with ease.

 

Another example. The first few pitches of Flying buttress direct on the sentinel in Yosemite. They are rated 5.7. I have onsight soloed plenty of 5.7's in my life but if I had chosen to solo the first few pitches on the Flying buttress I would be DEAD! They are full Fucking value. Steep slick squeze chimneys. My partner who has climbed 5.12 in squamish couldn't even do the moves on this 5.7. He had to batman through them. I thought the moves were somewhere closer to 5.10+. I never seem to find 5.7 bolted routes that i think are 5.10+

 

How about comparing the Phoenix in yosemite to Darkness at Noon at smith, both 5.13a. The skill required to send the phoenix is much greater than that of the skill required to do Darkness, thus making the phoenix harder. When leading Darnkness you don't have to worry about placing gear in your hand holds ever. Not so on the phoenix. I think these routes are of very similar dificulty when on top rope but when dragging the rope the phoenix is way harder. Hanging out on overhanging ring locks and having to fire in gear that isn't going to get in the way is much more time consuming and pumpy that clipping some pre-placed draw.

 

Fuck, whada I know, I am a weak ass punter for just arguing about it. I never was good at football.....

[glassgowkiss]

the ammount of time to be a strong trad climber is like what? 1 week? look at hubers or tommy caldwell abd the list goes on and on. and that was my initial point that anybody who can hang on can do these things, since they are easier then sport counterparts.

as far as ratings of newer routes my point again. just because it took you 10 tries to do a route x and it was 11a doesn't mean that the route that takes 15 tries is 11c.

darkness is not really 13a. from all the 13's i did so far it was the softest one, hence the french rating 7c not 7c+. i have heard it from many climbers

[AlpineK]

I can see where Bob's coming from. Take thin fingers. On top rope Thin Fingers seems pretty easy, yet it's much harder on lead.

 

The main point that I would disagree with you Bob is that the learning curve clipping bolts is much gentler than the learning curve placing gear on a trad route.

 

If you're good at placing anchors on a trad climb then grades may very well be a wash between trad and sport.

[Peter_Puget]

So Bob What routes?

[Dane]

last couple of weekends i had a chance to top-rope a few classic trad pitches at squamish and index. guess what- if you don't have to stop and place gear these things are just a walk.

 

I might suggest if you are going to compare grades you actually lead the route...on sight would be even more appropriate. That way you won't sound like "a weak ass punter" when you come up with an opinion

[RyanTriplett]

the ammount of time to be a strong trad climber is like what? 1 week? look at hubers or tommy caldwell abd the list goes on and on.

 

So the Hubers and Tommy have only been climbing trad for a week - I wasn't aware of this.

[foraker]

mmmm. extremely pointless pissing session.

[glassgowkiss]

dane, learn to read and understand what u actually read. u are out of your element, so shut the fuck up. and yes i did lead a lot of them os, in fact many years ago, most likely while you were still dumping your steamy loads (as tripple coilers they were not)in your diapers.

a few days back we were climbing on pet wall to finish off the day. team wank shows up, gets on pleasant pheasant and gets on a freequent flyer program. so after a while (with much hanging and bolt pulling) they managed to get to the anchor. then the spray starts. 11 sport blah blah blah i lead 10+ trad, but 10+ trad is harder then 11 sport blah blah, blah, have to stop and place gear, blah,blah, blah- catching my drift there sizzlechest?

btw hubers were climbing on salathe a week after they arrived in yosemite and they didn't do any crack climbing before. it was their training for ogre.

Edited April 19, 2004 by glassgowkiss

[MrDoolittle]

btw hubers were climbing on salathe a week after they arrived in yosemite and they didn't do any crack climbing before. it was their training for ogre.

 

But the Hubers could climb 8b before they started crack climbing.

[Distel32]

Bob is god, stfu wankers!

 

I've heard lots of people say what Bob is. JayB always said that I trad climbed for a few weeks I could be climbing stronger in crack than I am sport.

[RuMR]

Bob is not god, and bob needs to quit worrying about other climbers and what they think is hard or not...Ranting about some hosers on a route like pleasant pheasant is pointless...who really cares? If they were havin' a good time, fine, if they weren't, that's fine too (and should provide a good opportunity to enjoy the show, covertly, of course )...no reason to stress over it, people think and do what they want...just go climbing...

[whirlwind]

Bob is god, stfu wankers!

 

I've heard lots of people say what Bob is. JayB always said that I trad climbed for a few weeks I could be climbing stronger in crack than I am sport.

 

this might be true, but i don't think so. there is more to climbing trad than you think, yeah u might be able to lie back a 10+ crack right now luke but try lieing back that same crack and placeing gear its a whole new game, not saying u couldn't do it but it would take u more than a week or two.

[Distel32]

I don't believe I said I could do it. just said that other people besides bob have stated the same thing.

[whirlwind]

that topropeing trad is easyer than top ropeing sport...

probly, the point was leading isn't

[fern]

 

team wank are going to be so when the new guide comes out and Pleasant Pheasant is downrated to .10d . Not even leading sport 11s blah blah blah. wankers

[E-rock]

I don't believe I said I could do it. just said that other people besides bob have stated the same thing.

 

Then don't try to argue a point you potentially don't agree with, Luke.

[cracked]

Bob is god, stfu wankers!

This is possibly the most asinine comment I've heard. And that's saying something.

I've heard lots of people say what Bob is. JayB always said that I trad climbed for a few weeks I could be climbing stronger in crack than I am sport.

Thump....thump.....thump....

[chucK]

Bob is god, stfu wankers!

This is possibly the most asinine comment I've heard. And that's saying something.

 

What's worse, asinine or worthless?

[Off_White]

Gentlemen, if you would like to snipe at each other a little more, please do so in Spray. Vigorous debate is good, but "you suck" and "no, you suck" is dull.

[texplorer]

glasgow,

 

Just for the record, I am tired of hearing how "hard" trad is too. Trad used to be the only game in town and then the sporto came along and began rating routes. So if anything we should be saying sport routes are too easy. Once you learn to do jams, cracks may be as easy as their sport counterparts but you still have to hang out and place gear, which it takes even the most experienced tradster longer to place than clipping a bolt.

 

My pieve wit you is the Hubers comment. Funny what you said about the Hubers getting on the Salathe after one week. I just had a conversation with Alex last year where he told me he started leading 5.7 cracks when he first came to the valley and GRADUALLY worked through the grades. I think it was the NEXT year that they came back and made their Salathe ascent.