JGowans Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Sitting in my mounties MOFA class last night, one of the instructors made a comment that studies have shown that folks who spend an extended amount of time above 14,000 ft suffer from permanently decreased cognitive capacity. In other words, they're brain damaged. At that point, I kind of laughed and imagined Reinhold Messner a vegetable and wondered if Ed Viesturs is in some way a retard. Come to think of it, maybe the ones who are able to handle the suffering at high altitude are too brain dead to realize they're suffering? Anyway, I'm sure most of you have opinions on this topic eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 hmmmm, interesting, but how do you account for guys like Erik? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I saw a documentary on cognitive results at high altitude on Everest. Don't take my word for it, but I think they also took brain scans of the people before they left. Ed Viesturs was one of them. Somehow I remember the doctors saying that Ed Viesturs had significantly less brain cells compared to the average human as a result of looking at his brain scan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I am so introuble I don't think I have brain cells to spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer said: I am so introuble I don't think I have brain cells to spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Yeah, I've seen the documentary piece on the testing done on Ed Viesturs. I guess the point is that you really need to do some serious sightseeing above 14K before this becomes an issue. You can always just read dangerous mountaineering books and keep the cells. Doesn't sound as much fun, though ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I saw a documentary on cognitive results at high altitude on Everest. Don't take my word for it, but I think they also took brain scans of the people before they left. Ed Viesturs was one of them. Somehow I remember the doctors saying that Ed Viesturs had significantly less brain cells compared to the average human as a result of looking at his brain scan. I saw that one a couple of times. My recollection was that there was minor but noticeable difference shown on brain scans...but that they were not positive that it was caused by the altitude...but that it likely was. Also they did a follow up cognitive skills test and found no effect. The final analysis....as I recall....was something like it does have an effect, but it is totally unclear if the effect on the brain shows up in cognative abilities. Sure at some point it will negativley effect you, but I doubt many actually have brain damage that effects the way they live or think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 I also saw this story, and I thought that there is damage that occurs but heals afterwards. TTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Did they do before n' afters on same climber? Didnt think so. Bet they had significantly less brain cells in the first place. I mean...c'mon, MESSNER!! "Ya I see da Yeti! Ya you murder da impossible! Climbing is anarchy dat is why we must make da strong rules!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 No Dru, no before and after scans....it's a documentary and they are probably ruled by a budget....cat scans aint cheap. Like I said, I don't recall the exact way the documentary went. What I got out of it is this: The less oxygen to the brain, the more brain cells will die. It happens to drowning victims too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fejas Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Cat scans cost me 35$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 "Sure it kills brain cells, but only the weak ones." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredrogers Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Stefan said: No Dru, no before and after scans....it's a documentary and they are probably ruled by a budget....cat scans aint cheap. Like I said, I don't recall the exact way the documentary went. What I got out of it is this: The less oxygen to the brain, the more brain cells will die. It happens to drowning victims too.... Not to mention from serious rounds of bong hits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 freeclimb9 said: "Sure it kills brain cells, but only the weak ones." Exactly...that's why it effectively makes you smarter. You eliminate the dead weight, and your brain starts to function more efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_K Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 Fejas said: Cat scans cost me 35$ Small brain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 no thats how much they charge him at Kinkos to put his tabby on the copier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobinc Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 That last brain cell fights REALLY hard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston_Lagaffe Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 My precious cells are devoted to , oh, and climbing. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 I had the pleasure of seeing one of Ed's slideshows in a small setting and talking to him and regardless of how fe cells he has left, still a smart and nice guy! Pretty bad ass climber as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 What about those people that live high in South America and the Himalaya? Are they retarded too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyclimb Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 This is the stupidest fucking thing i have ever heard. The only place the body and mind start to deteriorate due to lack of oxygen is 20,500 feet and above. For some this altitude could be different, however 14,000 is very low. The reason base camps are kept at no higher than 14 is for this very reason. Big peaks can take months to assualt. You don't want to loose your mind before the window opens for the climb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I believe the actual height of the Death Zone is defined as halfway up whatever peak you are writing your post trip chest beating narrative for. "At 2000 foot elevation on Mt. Si, we chewed on our Exxxxxtreme horsecock, tightened the laces on our plastic boots, wrote our wills, and wet our pants, for we were about to enter the Death Zone, the altitude above which one in 3 mountaineers perishes horribly" etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONCHO&LEFTY Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 if i got any stupider i'd be stupid the term retard is not funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnHigh Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I've already fried my high altitude brain cells smoking shitty pot as a teen. I'm immune to the condition. No worries mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulB Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Stefan said: No Dru, no before and after scans....it's a documentary and they are probably ruled by a budget....cat scans aint cheap. Like I said, I don't recall the exact way the documentary went. The show in question was a NOVA episode called "Everest:The Death Zone", which was filmed by David Breashears. It featured Breashears, Viesturs and a couple of other climbers. They underwent brain scans and cognitive testing in Seattle, and repeated the testing at various altitudes on Everest and when they got back to Seattle. It was a bit scary to see these world class climbers giggling their asses off while trying to answer test questions at altitude. The comment on Ed's brain scan was that compared to what the docs considered "normal", it appeared that over the years his brain had atrophied, presumably due to so much time at altitude. I don't believe that they implied he had suffered any long term mental degeneration. If you haven't seen this show, it's worth tracking down. Lots of good scenery, none of the Hollywood climbing hype and a sobering look at what altitude can do to even the best climbers. Two thumbs up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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