Rodchester

W: "I'm poking fun because it would be funny to imagine a famous, top end climber, partaking in a TYPICAL discussion that goes on here." Funny, I have found many to be incredibly down to earth and regularly particpate in "typical" discusions. No I don't just mean CHris B but I have represented a few very well known climbers in contract matters with sponsors and media outlets. At my wedding I remember talking with Carlos Buhler and Whopper about a 5.5 route and a scramble in the Tetons and it was obvious he enjoyed just talking climbing, 5.0 to 5.14. Alpine, crag, ice, rock. I think a lot more climbers, GREAT and not so great would post here if there wasn't so much smearing going on...not the off colored humor...that is fine.

Jim: I didn't say anything about off colored humor. So obviously I didn't say even imply that ALL Legends are sensitive. I didn't say any are.....smearing is different. It is just interewsting to me that many climbers, and many "well known climbers", call the legends greats what ever, don't seem to post here. Even though I am sure that many do spend time at home and on the web. And Phatty you are great....

Liloeet B.C.

Notice he said guides, as in plural. It take at elast two and two sherpas.

E-Burg can be cool...but it is very cowboy. If that is cool with you...you'll like it. I wouldn't call it a mountain town though.

In an earlier post AlpineK wrote: "In any case claiming to guide on an 8000M peak is fucked up. A person with little O2 can hardly take care of themselves let alone guide. Especially when there are such high stakes.. like the huge fee clients pay to get to the top." I have never done an 8000 meter peak but have always been curious and know many who have. My understanding of the 8000 meter game goes this way. MOST! 8000 meter expeditions are run one of three ways: 1. Non-commercial: This is the more traditional way. It can mean that the fees permits and equipment is funded by governments, individuals, etc. They can be small and fast or large and slow. 2. Commericial unguided: This is a way that has really taken off. Small groups of climbers gang together to pay for the permits, fees, and equipment,(foods fuel, porters). However no one is guided and all are on thier own. Individuals can be sponsored if the wish, but the expedition is not. Some times the permit holder profits and sometimes they do not. These can be small and large at the same time. Part of the permit may work together in classic siege style while others go lighter. Most all solo climbers use this arrangment. 3. Commercial guided: This is the one that draws the evil eye of many climbers. Clients pay a set amount for everything and they are guided. The level of guide service will vary from company to company and expedition to expedition. These are usually run by "companies" and usually seek to make a profit. There are variations of each. Often commercial guided expeditions will allow some climbers to buy into the permit but nothing else. They are on thier own on the mountain. Some times they buy into the permit and some equipment, but are not guided. In actuality, very few people or companies guide 8000 meter peaks and very few 8000 meter peaks are guided. Everest has drawn everyone's attention, but the 8000 meter peak that is guided the lost is by far Cho Oyo in Tibet. Also very few guide companies use gas on any 8000 meter peak besides Everest. I have never heard of anyone guiding K-2 od Kachenjunga (Spelling?) So I am interested to hear what people think regarding the guiding of 8000 meter peaks. Are some clearly guidable? Are some not guidable? How is guiding on an 8000 meter peak different than a lesser altitude peak? Should the guide standard be lower, ie less services on an 8000 meter peak? Should the client's abilites be higher on an 8000 meter peak? If so how much higher? If you just want to spray start your own thread. I am curious to see what others think and believe. ok spray some...but don't hog the ball.

polartec outlet closed Ever heard of a product called sympatex? I have a pair of bibs made out of it and it works better than goretex. Apparently it is big in Europe, or was. They are about 6 or 7 years old now and are on thier last leg. I have heard that GoreTex's worst enemy is salt. It clogs the "pores" in the GoreTex. Hmmm humand sweat..salt...hmmm. Apparently Sympatex does not suffer the same salt problem. Anyone ever use this stuff? It is still a waterproof breathable, so it is not some radical departure from GoreTex. Also it is a lamanent.

I agree with jon. That is exactly why I am trying to get us all to ask ourselves these questions. Come on guys and gals, I love to joke and screw around almost as much as the best of you. But we need to give some room to others who might be new, others that might be very experienced but just can't stand the crap. Sure sometimes a poster deserves it. But until they do we should be a little more respectful and open minded. Yes I have been an ass at times too, I admit it. I really like this site but think that too often a few just bash others to the point of driving away many. (I seriously doubt they mean to do that, but too often they do).

I think she, like many others, only lurks....

W: Some good points...and that is what I have been looking for. I am just pondering and wanted to see what others think.

I guess the context of the posting is lost on some of you. No problem. But for those of you who understand the context of this post feel free to respond.

Will: I know Matt Anderson and somehow I doubt he would consider himself one of the greats. Yes he kicks ass and climbs some tough ass shit. Yes he would smoke me. Others here would smoke me too. "I doubt Steve House has the time or really gives a shit what other people think, and most of the hard-asses are probably out there CLIMBING instead of wishing they were climbing." Now that hits the point. I guess it is because most of the posters, myself included, just aren't out there climbing...but we have time for posting. The point is that none of the well known climbers post here even though they live in the PNW. Judging by the amount of smearing I bet many wouldn't post here. Just trying to get some opinions..... (Phatty - you are actually great in my book)

Many of the great climbers live in the PNW and throw in the Montana-Wyoming area and we have an incredible amount of great climbers in a fairly small area. This site has become well known by many climbers in the PNW. But for some reason the greats never seem to post on this site. Does anyone know or wonder why no great climbers post on this page?

How about those genuine TNF pants being a leopord print inside and out?

Just go into the woodline and crash - out of sight out of mind

I agree with rbw1966. I almost never carry any ascenders, except prusik line. They work just fine are light weight and simple. I also just carry a petzl pulley wheel on an oval biner. They rock and weigh nothing...cheap too. tiblocs have some applications, but again you just don't need it on a glacier. Why carry it if you don't need it? Especially true when you have two rope teams. Just power them out.

Bibs

-5 REI Downtime 700 fill with Dryloft. Best down bag on the market for the money. They now use REI elements (or some version of it) rather thatn the Dryloft. Light, compressible and 700 fill is good stuff.

OK: So it is quite clear from the many posts on the long thread about a slide show at TNF that most, or at least manny cc:ers are not fans of TNF. I do agree that TNF makes a lot of junk, but they do still make some good stuff. I do agree that their innovation has become one of gimmicks, and not practical application. I do agree that they market agreesivly toward the sidewalk mountaineering crowd. So...my question is this. What company doesn't? I know that ArcTeryx was very innovative initally, great fit and finish on thier soft goods...but they have been bropught out. Did the owner sell-out in the sense that the company is now a junk manufacturer run by capitalist pigs? How about Mountain H-wear? Their stuff just seems like a slighly heavier, more bulky TNF product. I mean the sleeping bags are just about cookie cutter to TNFs. I like Cloudveil, but you simply cannot convince me that the owner is in it only for the love of the game. Would he not sell out in a minute if the price was right? Who wouldn't want to retire and do nothing but climb and travel? If one is so anti marketing/captialistic what do you wear in the mountains? Patagonia? Come on man, is there a company more directly marketed to the yuppie sidewalk mountaineering crowd? (Patagucci) Sierra Designs? Marmot? Lowe Apline? Just thinking out loud....your thoughts?

So how did the cats like it?

I have found pickets placed properly are bomber. Especially placed horizontally. I think that the snow int eh PNW, Cascade Concrete, is generally better for pickets than in the Rockies. In fact I use 18 inch pickets in hard summer snow all the time. Placed vertical they rock and ould hold your mom. In winter I switch to the 24 inch. If the snow is solid and consolidated and they are placed right they will hold your mom and Wopper's mom....(Lovely Linda the webmaster for poponfarm.com).

Sick sick sick...post the picture will ya?

DPS: What did you think of the Ingals East Ridge Route? And I totally agree on the Mountaineers....god damn they take a beating on this site. Except to say they keep them herded tight so we can avoid them and they do GENERALLY climb safe.

Apline Tom is right...thyere would just be some other club formed and they would take the place of the Mounties. Yes they suck, but may actually help the situation by keeping the herd together and predictable. So we know how to avoid them.

Hey MVS, Kind of funny how Christine's post got sooo much slam and protest while yours got nothin. Anyway I can't make the show but sounds good...and I am sure you are not a sell out.