Rodchester

I just lie...anything has to work better than the truth. Peace on earth and at home.

Cone on Wil...don't take it personally.

You know one thing climbing has taught me...there is always someone better than you. Usually a lot better. If they are assholes just ignore them. Another thing to keep in mind on this site. The tone and delivery in a posting is often lost and comes off as more pised off then the poster actually is. Don't take this shit personal. And again ignore the assholes. I have some friends that climb at...well lets just say world class level. Comparably, I am a novice and we talk climbing all the time. Climbing isn't divided up by skill level. It is you agianst, or with, your objective. Not against other climbers. That is one major reason why climbing (mountaineering and alpine anyway) is not a true sport. So Wil, what you want to talk about?

I'd say they are just really lazy. It takes less energy to just lie. Then they don't have to find out the truth. Or expose their own lack of knowledge or inability to comprehend the knowledge. Next, if Homer Simpson isn't lost they don't have to work. Lazy, lieing, bastards. What this comes down to is that anyone with experience knows you outright ignore anything and everything thing they say. In fact I don't even ask much any more. Then they wonder why we don't listen to them.

OK - So I have a buddy (fairly novice) who is doing a traverse of the Wind River Range. He will hit four big peaks, Jackson, Fremiont, Sacagawea, and Gannett. All routes are fairly simple mountaineering routes with some scrambling, so they will carry little in the way of "trad" gear. The trip will last 7-8 days (yes, it could be done in four by Alex Lowe/Carlos Buhler types). I have always been quite successful at keeping my pack weight down to a minimum. My friend on the other hand seems to go heavy. He has e-mailed me and asked for some pointers on going light. So the question is: What are some ways to cut your pack weight on this type of trip? Put another way, what are somethings we see others carry that can be left behind? My initial response to him was that most people seem to carry: 1) Too much food 2) Too much extra clothes 3) Too much knick-nack crap gear (Candle lanterns, crampon bags, etc.) So what do you think?

Viktor = agree on Nelson, good guy, bit odd but mostly in a good sense, straight shooter. fleblebleb: "13 years old -5 degree synthetic bag (still going strong, I think it's made of steel)" Holy shit batman...13 years? It must be a 60 degree bag by now. (Tupperware) Then again, the orginal synthetics tended to last considerably longer but were heavier and less compressible than they are today. "I like to sleep on snow in a bivi bag, which can make for pretty bad condensation, wet toeboxes etc. so I figured I'd stick to synthetics." I assume on a mattress/ thermarest/ ridgerest? If so I still think it is time to get down brother. "Any good or bad experiences with primaloft?" Integral designs is one of the quiet companies out there that make very good products at damn good prices. Usually very simple and lightweight. RE: Primaloft. It has a reputation as being the lightest and most compressible of the synthetics...and the quickest to breakdown. Actually you don't see it used much anymore. It was very common in coats and gloves. 2 cents on that. "Can anyone suggest one or two down bags I could check out that are comparable to the renaissance in terms of warmth" Best down = Feathered friends. Marmot makes some excellent bags as well. Also, if you can get your hands on a Moonstone 800-fill they loft up with the best of them. Best for the money = -5 REI Downtime with Elements. To carry the weight and bulk or not to carry the weight and bulk? That is the question. My 2 cents and your decision. Good Luck

DPS, I can appreciate synthetic in those types of situations. But still a good truely waterproof stuff sack would have prevented that. Nothing fancy either. For the average joe (or josephine) cascade climber...it is time to get down brother!!! But point taken on keeping down dry...it is a must.

Bake a pie, eat a pie. Al Bundy

DPS, What synthetic closes the gap to down? I have never seen any come close on compresability or weight. Unless you use a compression bag on the synthetic, in which case you quicken the destruction of the synthetic material. Put the bags side by side, same length, same cut, same temp rating, no comparision. Sure down sucks bad when it is wet and if you climb in the rain a lot, maybe sythetics are for you. Synthetics still get wet and miserable, they just continue to provide some, that's right just some, insulation properties when wet. Additionally, the dry MUCH faster than down. In all the years I have been out in the hills, I have never gotten a bag, down or synthetic, soaked. I'm not old, but I'm not young either. Sure, it is a choice thing...to carry the weight or not to carry the weight? Rain...I'm in the bar getting soaked in a different way. No goretex needed in there...

I was there on sunday a.m. and decided not to climb it. (So did another guy who was solo) The snow was very sloppy and we post holed in places. The temps were really warm. It did not go below freezing on Sat. night. I would say under those conditions it was doable, but no protection and very sloppy. If it dips below freezing over night to harden it up I would say it would be a great route.

I think Kris was asking about the ice climbing area low on the glacier where summer and fall bring good conditions for seracing and crevase clmbing, not summit shots.

AlpineK, Call me your wingman on that bombing e=run through the burbs. The only good thing about the burbs is that it keeps the suburbanites in them.

Ask yourself this question...When is the last time you truely got your bag soaked? Down is the way to go. It lasts 5-10 times longer than synthetic, is way more compressable, and is way lighter. No synthetic can do all three...plain and simple. I have a -5 degree 775-fill, dryloft that is about 3 1/2 pounds and it sees duty in fall, winter, and spring. It beathes great and is fairly water proof, or should I say resistant. I also have a 30 degree 775-fill nylon. It weighs under two pounds and is the size of a small loaf of bread, I mean small loaf. This is my summertime and or bivy bag. It rocks. I have ruined many sythetic sleeping bags which were supposed to be as good as down. A good friend calls them tupperware. If they are always comparing themselves to down, why not just get down. I recommend spending the cash and going with at least 700-fill and a 0 to -5 range. This is a great all around bag. When you can afford to pick up an ultra-light weight one then do so. But in the meantime the 0 degree will do it all. Sure, you want to get a good stuff sack that is truely waterproof, just to be safe. I don't care what anyone says about synthetics, they suck. Sure if you are a rafter or boater where the odds are good it would get wet, sythetic makes sense. But here in the Cascades? Think about it. When you check the weather and it says, shitty followed by shitty, do you say...hey I'm getting out my bag and going climbing. No, you go to the bar. When you are high on some peak and unexpected storm blows in, are you either in a tent or a bivy sack? Yes. If not you are going to bail. If it is turning out to be a long storm do you stay there? No, you bail. Down rocks. Best down = Feathered friends. Marmot makes some excellent bags as well. Also, if you can get your hands on a Moonstone 800-fill they loft up with the best of them. Best for the money = -5 REI Downtime with Elements. To carry the weight and bulk or not to carry the weight and bulk? That is the question. My 2 cents and your decision. Good Luck. [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 07-09-2001).] [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 07-09-2001).]

Regarding dryloft, and other comparative materials, they usually add about 5 degrees to the bag. In otherwords, a 0 degree 700-fill down bag with nylon becomes a -5 degree when a material like dryloft is added.

To a certain degree we all have to "deal" with these situations. This is especially true on the standard lines. It can often be safer getting on a more slightly more difficult route with less crowds. Usually where there are crowds there are idiots. Even taking the precaustions, a tactics that Smoker recommends isn't always going to gaurantee you won't run into unsafe and slow parties. If a danger is truely being created....bail. If it is more of an pain in the ass, deal with it. In this case you had the room and they were so slow you could easily negotiate around them. Likely a good call. If you want to read a good thread, go to the one about Judd on Mt. Rainier. This guy sounds like he was WAY worse than the party you encountered.

17.5 miles each way in plastic boots? Take another hit off the crack pipe. No fucking way.

Kevlar... You were right to leave him. I would have left him and so would most everyone I know. You simply cannot reason with a Dudd. Trying to only puts the team in danger. The adage "never leave anyone" is a ideal....not a reality. You have to come down to reality or it will come down on you. Thank god no one was hurt.

Oh yeah, I forgot I had beers and Pizza with Lynn Hill in Chicago a few years back. She was very nice and cute.

Me and whopper got hammered with Alex Lowe's little brother Ted in Dubois Wyoming. Great guy.

As to Wills' last response. You can get off with one 50, IF you work your way around to another rap station located south of the main rap anchors. I cannot see how anyone could do it in two raps from the main rap station. Maybe you could go off the main station and swing like mad to the other station? I would never recommend this, since you can simply scramble down to the other station. Will, have you done it in two raps? Also, as of the past two years you can spend two consecutive nights in any one "zone." So you can spend two nights at the saddle, but only two. [This message has been edited by Rodchester (edited 07-02-2001).]

I have done the OS when the chimney was icy, and it was nasty...but fun. I agree that it is a good route from a historical view. It can be fun from any point of view and the exposure on the crawl is wicked. But the fun section is short and is a real bottle-neck. I did the upper exum with the wife last year. It can be done fairly fast and has enough space to climb through others on the route moving slow (No way to do this on short bottle-necked section of the OS). The climbing is fun and easily protected with plenty of class four and simul-climb sections. It is hard to get lost on but easy to get slightly off route, so you may slow down by wondering off route. A good strong and discilplined team of two or solo should have no problem in a day. Bring a 60 meter rope for the rap. Good luck

Free beer

Bingo guys... I tried the plastic climbing boot thing and it slapped me hard. Kicked my ass. I have a pair of Scarpas now and am very happy with them. I do have a buddy who more or less grew up sking and he is quite good in his plastics (Koflachs). However even he admits it take some skill, strength and still isn't a party. So yes it can be done...but no it is not a party. Good luck...

I have been there too. The food is good, not great, and the service is slow. But As I remeber the waitresses were worth the wait. mmmm mmmm

Oh man that rocks...I feel like heading to the bar now!!!