Rodchester

"Fowler and Boskoff are dating, last I heard. Seriously" I guess that is how you would put it. They have been climbing together and hanging out for sometime now. Ropegun, I think W was kidding. Just a little left over ribbing from other posts and aimed at me. Right W? But you are right ropegun, Charlie's accomplishments, style, ethics are solid & second to none. Charlie really is a super nice guy and very humble. Pretty damn good photographer too. I intend to be there, and hope to meet a few cc.comers there.

"Thermogenisis literally translated means "generation of heat". " I generate my own heat too...you should smell it after a night of drinking micro-brews.

I have a bunch of Neutrinos and I really like them for most any application that does not require gloves. I have one of the small OPs that I haven't used. So no opinion there. The weight saved with these biners is worth the trouble, except in winter conditions.

"The surplus is almost gone (300m left) because lawmakers in Olympia are unwilling to make tough decisions re state employment levels." What surplus? There is no surplus. In fact they had (or "said" they had) to spend the tabacco money just to balance the budget. Our asshole legislature and govenor (Yes, Dems & Repups, Right and Left) spent the rainy day money when the sun was shining and now we are stuck in the rain. A favorite of both side is to shut down parks, saying oh we are soo poor. Then when they raise taxes or cut spending from other areas they can point thier fingers and say but we had to. It is a great way for them to illustrate what thier problem, real or preceived. Whose fault? Our fault. We votes for them and we don't have the balls to challenge them.

DRU & W: Damn you two are on to me. I must escape to the grassy knoll now...run away run away.

Hey W....as your attorney I must remind you that if you give away such a damn good idea he can use it and get rich....and you get noithing. Get a patent first. I have to admmit I have never used your cams brian. Give us some idea why you think they are actually better....warning this is a tough and experienced crowd you are facing.

Should I be AplineRod or the Alpine Molester?

Good dialoge here... "Beckwith's source for the passage about selling the "sky, broad vistas, and fragrant flowers" is Terry Anderson, who, according to Scott Silver, is an advisor to Pres. Bush." Does that mean that this whole thing is Anderson's vision? Big stretch? Hmmm. Crying wolf? This type of name calling and bashing tactic will only serve to alienate many who are against the Fee Demo and many other similar programs. Who is spreading propaganda here?

I read the article posted at the link. I found it to be a decent front for actual legal research and poor policy suggestion. However, it is just that, a quasi-academic policy suggestion. I agree this guy is plain crazy. That being said there are in fact many private parks all over the world. In countries with an Anglo-American legal system these are little more than corporations (there are many types, green peace is a form of a corporation). This is not new unigue or neccesarily harmful. (From Disney World to petting zoos, and everything in between.) However, the idea of converting national parks and or forests to private ownership is nothing short of comical...no dangerous What I cannot understand about this post, is how this guy's article connects to Bush Administration policy? Is the author now in the Bush Admin? You say "below is Mr. Anderson's vision" but the article was penned by Beckwith? Am I missing something here? The CATO insitute (Mr. Beckwith's sponsor for the article) is well known as a right wing liberatarian style think tank. They purposefully generate all kinds of crap. The Fee Demo program has been around for years. Yes, I hate it too. But I don't see this as a Bush thing. many very liberal people are pushing for this program as well as others like it. Was it a Clinton thing? I think it is VERY good to point out these assholes, but we need to keep it in context. The sky is not falling, but Mr. Beckwith wants it to.

Allison: A bit sensitive? Can't take a joke? Don't be such an eggshell... Kidding Allsison, just kidding.

Come on Mike, we all know that was Lou Whittaker on the grassy noll.

I agree with the Grivel Air Tech Racing. It is a bit light, which can effect its ability to self arrest. Though I feel fine with it and have used it on stepp stuff. I do agree the spike is not the best, but it is not bad either. I wouldn't want to go any lighter for actual mountaineering use, as opposied to a AT Ski axe or backpackers axe for crossing snowfields. Hey imorris, I would send that Alpamayo back to BD. Let them fix or replace it. I'll be willing to bet they will fix it. Maybe you could get a new one, new version anyway. Cheaper but heavy, the REI axe. Simple and built to last. Heavy, heavy, heavy. Not a bad axe, but not my axe either.

I would repeat the Exum ridge on the Grand Teton. I would also repeat the Becky Route on Liberty Bell.

Are you saying you want something more than the normal alpine climbing pack? Something for a weeklong trip with heavier loads? While many of the packs pointed out by others are good packs most are true alpine packs with a medium sized to smaller volume. Also, if you plan on humping a weeks worth of weight I would want a frame, not just a foam pad. I have never used the McHale packs, though they have a good rep. One friend got one about ten years ago and never really liked it. Another had one and loved it. You might want to look at: http://www.arcteryx.com/packs/khamsin/khamsin62.asp http://www.arcteryx.com/packs/bora/bora65.asp http://www.danadesign.com/packs/arclight/redirect.htm http://www.gregorypacks.com/prod/frame_esc.html http://www.lowealpine.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductTypeID=10&ProductGroupID=174&Position=3&SpecificActivityID= http://thenorthface.com/index_flash.html I would take a close look at the Kamsin 62. I have never used it, but it seems to me to fit the needs that you described. Good luck.

I had a lightweight Camp/Lowe helmet years ago. It was light. But it did not hod up to the ue and abuse. Now I have an Ecrin Roc helmet by Petzl. It is twice as heavy (I think) but it is very durable, comfortable, and easy to size. I'll be willing to bet it WAY outlasts the lightweight one. I wear my bucket almost all of the time.

In order to be a good guide you need to be a good/strong/experienced climber, but you also must be good at working with people. This is much like any school. Teachers are not usually the best in thier field. The best lawyers are not teaching law school, they are out making the big bucks. This holds true to many professions/fields. A mathmatical genious is not usually the best basic algebra teacher. A guide like any teacher needs to be able to communicate the information effectively. You don't need someone that can climb 5.12 trad at high altitude to teach a newbie how to clip a bolt. You don't need Jeff Lowe to teach someone how to self arrest on 35 degree snow. This raises one of the issues with certification. Just because a guide knows the techingues and thier application, doesn't necessarliy mean he is an effective communicator. Many very competant guides in the states have not pursued any form of certification. Though it appears that is the wave of the future.

erik: Hmmm. I don't recall saying it was anything other than a business. You know why? It is. Not sure I got your post. What do you mean by "charging forward towards elitism"? You use it right after "a herd/cattle tendency"? Are you saying guide companies are elitist with a herd mentality? Seems to me these two conflict. Maybe I am reading your post incorrectly? Also you stated "it should be humbling job where the clients wishes and safty are considered before anything else" Are these two things one in the same? What if a clients' wishes are not safe? I'm not really sure what you are trying to say erik, and I am not trying to pick a bitch session. I just don't see how encouraging someone to be aware of what they are getting and what they are paying for, that they should asked questions to be informed, and get the most for thier bucks. If that is wrong I highly encourage beefcider to be wrong. Be informed, ask questions, be wrong brother. Beefcider: Remember that these courses are generally basic courses. Erik asked: 1) how much thinking do the guides let you do??? 2) do they give you scenarios that allow you to practive learned skills??? especially without their interferance?? 3) are they open to allowing you some type of (albeit limited) opinion on route finding or route choice??? do they allow you to lead in a controlled enviroment?? These are good points...but these courses are basic courses. You are goinbg to learn basic lkevel techigues and information. Sure most good courses will allow the students to take a much more hands on approach than the "summit" climbs. That was my point in the first post. No good guide is going to let you just start doing your own thing without his/her interference. Saftey dictates a certain amount of control and guidance in these courses. Thats why they call them guides. Good luck and have fun. Be wrong brother, be wrong.

I use a similar system to AlpineK. Also I have seen many guys using the little talk-about radios. They seem to work great on an apline rock climb. 2 cents

You really have to differentiate between a "summit" trip and a course/school. Most guide services offer a summit climb where the focus is on taking the Walter Mitty types to the top of something. The idea is to only teach Walter just enough to not get him or others killed. Basicaly, if you fall self arrest and stay there until your guide says different. On the other hand the actual courses or schools tend to focus on learning the skills required to climb the peak your self. The 5/6 days courses generally focus on glacier travel and basic mountaineering. If you want to go the next step I know that Mountain Madness (yes I have a connection with them) and AAI each offer very good 13 day course that focus on most all aspects of glacier travel and alpine rock too. These are much more comprehensive courses than the 5/6 day courses offered by RMI. I would look closely at the cost difference. If RMI tells you that their course is more expensive because it also involves a summit attempt, I would look elsewhere. It may be that MMI and AAI 13 day courses are just a little bit more expensive but you get so much more instruction. Then again maybe not. Price them out. RMI does hire competant guides that are good instructors. There are a lot of posters here that think they know all about guiding and could do it better. They can't, that is why they're posting here. There are a lot of posters that just bitch about guiding in general. Ignore them, everyone else does. Whatever course you take post a review on it after you take it. Good luck. http://www.alpineascents.com/cascades-13day.asp http://www.mountainmadness.com/alpine/alpine.htm See how these 13 day schools compare to RMI's 6 day. Also always look at what comes with it. Do you have to bring your own food? How about gear? Ask all the questions. [ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Hands down, Second Ascent in Ballard at 5209 Ballard Ave. NW. Feathered Friends also rocks and is the best down there is any where REI. Ever heard of it. Web based: www.campmor.comwww.sierratradingpost.com

I will say this. I can see both sides in the access versus restrict access debate. I must say that I am all for leaving areas roadless be and even returning some areas to roadless status. I am not into banning the humans or anything like that. When a road washes out or a bridge is ACTUALLY no longer viable, they should review the need, utlitity, and cost of vehicle access. Maybe it should be turned back into a roasdless area? The dashboard crowd has plenty of areas to drive through and to. The idea that, because the bridge is out no one can walk the road? That is pure bullshit. I feel like going out there and walking it just to say FO. The reality is that certain areas are and should remain beyond the reach of the dashboard crowd. Al Bundy and Ned Flanders are simply not made to be in the wilderness. They are safer in thier cars. We need to preserve the wilderness and even return some lands back to wilderness. I undertstand access for all, but how about wheelchair ramps up Liberty Bell? Should the wheeled person be denied access? That is akin to me bolting a ladder up some route that I can't lead and saying I shouldn't be denied access to it. Face it, Al Bundy belongs on his couch and that bastard Ned belongs in church. If Al or Ned want to go into the wilderness, they will just have to get out of thier cars. I don't think this is selfish. I know I got off topic and that this spills over to the debate about the road on the west side of Rainier, but that is my 2 cents.

Mr. Radon: This info is based on understanding and I am not claiming to know it all. So take it with a grain of salt. "I wonder how many "independent/amateur" climbers are turned away each year because there is no room on the guided routes because of the guided parties?" Actually this would be easy to calculate. It is my understanding that each time a guide compnay leads a climber it is charged for a "user day." Each user day is a spot on a route that cannot be used by an "amatuer" as you/they say. Assuming the routes are always full (they certainly are full in July and August). Each spot/user day is one that an amatuer cannot climb, at least on that route. Each route has a maximum capacity of climbers that the NPS has calculated as safe, kind of a carrying capacity. "Guides can go to plenty of other place to train." The training on the lower slopes should not count against the number allowed on a route. I believe that is the case, as long as they stay below 10,000 feet. I think what is being suggested is that the lowers slopes be open to guide companies conducting crevase type schools and snow schools. my 2 cents

I know there are many of you out there that REALLY do not like guiding. But the fact of the matter is that guiding is as old as climbing. Another fact of the matter is that guiding on Rainier is here to stay. Like it or not. If we got rid of RMI and the Emmons gang, renegade guiding would be the only alternative. This would of course leave the park service with no way to "police" the mountain. They would have no control over the guides and thier practices. I do believe that the park should open up some routes to other guide companies, but it should not create a free for all. I also think the use of the lower slopes by guide companies for schools and seminars is a good idea. I think RMI for the most part does one hell of a job. They are helpful, when help is really needed on the mountain. I know they screw up occaisionally, and they have pissed me off a time or two as well. But what are the alternatives? 1) Get rid of guiding?2) Limit it further, driving up prices?3) Open the mountain up to all guides, anarchy?4) Others? Just thinking out loud here and trying to create a good diologue. I really can't say I am sold either way. This may be a good thread. But I have to go to a CLE. So...spray away. That means you too DRU!!!

I estimate that the chute/pearly gates area can be anywhere from 35 to 45 depending on conditions. I seriously doubt that it gets over 45 degrees. I walked down it last weekend and remember thinking that if it were any steeper you couldn't walk down it. I have been down it three times and up it once. Each time I would say it was 40 degrees. 50 degrees? Get off the crack pipe. [ 03-08-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]