Rodchester

Vanilla Ice: AlpineK is right on...nothing wrong with a little venting...but call CS and give them a chance. freeclimb9: "Why is this statement put on their website? Coincidence?" That was you on the grassy knoll, wasn't it? If that is all you got, you look pretty bad. There is no boogey man.

JT: No doubt. I called Bullshit on him too, and he simply ignored my request.

freeclimb9: "(a couple people had to die first)" That is a big finger I see pointing at BD. Who died, where, when, some details please. Some fixed line broke, on some expedition? One guy died? Sounds like a suburban legend to me. This one time...I was at band camp. Last week it was go ahead and girth hitch wire stoppers/nuts and you will be fine....now it is BD products kill people? Vanilla Ice: "put with a week in the Israeli army then we will see who is the woos" You really are a whiner. Ooooh the Israeli Army...think that is going to impress the posters here? Did you only last a week? Oh we are impressed. There are WAY too many vets on this page to play that card. Put it away before your ass gets smoked. And one more thing: "I've still got my old Chouinard hexes strung with Kevlar" I would recommend reslinging them. Not because Kevlar is inherently dangerous...but the fact is that Kevlar does wear considerably faster. This is especially true if the cord is tied and retied multiple times. Remember, it is a brittle that can stop a sub caliber bullet, but not a knife (when used in bullet proof vests that is).

Oooops!!!!! See Below (I know I suck) [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Specialized: "And now you can buy your own helmut sticker pack for only $9.95. Sellout?" How is that a sellout? and who is that BD is selling out to? Themselves? They're a company, that's what they do. I don't think they truy to hide it either...that's why they're selling stickers. Did I miss something?

I'm with rbw1966. I wouldn't bitch until you have given thier CS Dept. a chance to fail too. Send them back or take them back. I have been happy with most BD products, and I even have a pair of the drytrool gloves. Yes they do wear rather quickly, most gloves I have worn do. Overall I really like them.

I have used an array of synthetics and some woll based products. I am happy with the various synthetic products I am presently using. My GENERAL view of wool is that it is an insulation layer that works well (even when wet)but as with all products it has limitations. It tends to be heavy and while it certainly wicks, it absorbs too much moisture in the process. yes it still insulates when wet, but it gets heavier and face it your still wet. I know some are hot on the newer wool based products such as Smartwool. I have not used these, so I cannot comment on them specifically. However, I would imagine if it is engineered correctly and with new processes, maybe wool has a place. I know Jim Nelson is a pretty big proponent of the Smartwool stuff. I would be interested to hear someone's informed (experienced) opinin on the use of the smartwool. Anyone with expedition style use?

BDs are nice, but they are a bit heavy. I have heard it said that the BDs have a greater range and therefore make up for the weight by being able to carry fewer. They have the reputation of being the strongest cam, so strong you can use them in as an active cam or as a passive "nut" type of protection. Don't quote me on this. I have used the BD and think they are an excellent cam. I have a full set a Trangos and I am happy with them. Why did I buy them? Because they were on sale. But they are fine for the climbing I do. I have also used the Metolious and think they are a very good cam. Good luck

I agree with DPS on the Hexes, especially in an alpine enviroment. (4 largest sizes)

I do agree with you. Bivies can be fun and interesting. But I think the point of not using a bivy is to push yourself not to need a bivy. Because a bivy or a high camp in North America is much more likely to be needed, the idea of doing without one is challenging. Europeans (most anyway) have no, or little, appreciation for wilderness because Europe has so little wilderness. The hut system and cable car system removes much of the need for a bivy. In North America many climbs are in areas that are comparativly much more remote than many of the European climbing areas. I think (yes i could be wrong) the quote from Gaston Rebuffat. "The man who climbs only in good weather, starting from huts and never bivouacking" addresses the European situtation much more so than the North American situation. I have been in the huts in South America on a few occaisions and heard the Euros bitch and complain about the lack of services, the dirt, etc. While I thought, "wow this is plush." This was echoed by most every NA climber I ran into in SA. Why? I grew up running around the woods and hills of the Ohio River valley and spent weeks-on-end out under the stars each summer. So did most kids that I knew. And I am sure most posters here did the same or something similar. When I learned to climb it was always put your tent or bivy sack in your pack and go. In Europe very few are raised this way. The focus is GENERALLY on huts. Just an observation and a few thoughts. Anyone else? (I am not saying I am right and the Euros are wrong, just different And I am not saying this is universal)

Camazonia: Sure the unions have provided and continue to provide a lot of labor, both skilled and unskilled, to the American economy, but you have made it sound as if they are the only thing. That is where we part. I have often wrestled with the Union mentality. I grew up in Ohio, a very union state. What I simply cannot stand about Unions is the self promoting self righteousness spew that I hear from MANY (not all)of thier members. They almost seem brainwashed, lockstepped, in line all the time to the point that they refuse to recognize their weak points and seem to ignore them. I am not a fan of any group like this, religon, political parties, etc. So I'll clarlify my postion that I am not anti-union, I'm just not blinded by the propganda. Hey its Friday....

freeclimb9: I also find your mistatements amusing. You quoted "webbing over a wire rope (i.e. a cable) on a piece of protection would 'cut like a hot knife through butter ... '" If this claimed quote came from my post, I am calling bull shit on you. What I wrote was: "Is it a hot knife through butter? No...that is why I even said it can be done at times (in a pinch), but it GREATLY increases the risk." What part of "No" do you not understand? If you follow the general direction of the thread, it is apparent that what most of those opposed to your position were stating was that girth hitching directly to a wire cable is not a good idea. There was nothing stated or noted about cables coated in rubber and or plastic. Even when you implied it, (never actually just coming out and saying it) the general direction of thread stayed on point...that is cable...wire cable...not plastic coated cams and rubber coated nuts. Yopu wrote: "Although no arguements of the importance of cable diameter (i.e. radius of curvature) in these claims were offered" I guess my wording was not exact and maybe my calling it the rope bearing surface is not a term of art, but your assertion is nothing short of disengenous. I wrote: "Also most of your info as cited pertains to strengths, not rope bearing surface and or cutting ability? It doesn't matter how strong a rope or a draw is, it can still be cut. The smaller the rope bearing surface the greater the "cutting" effect on the rope or draw." Yet you never respond on point? Now you claim no one bought it up? Hmmm. My statement clearly put you on notice and implied a request for a response addressing the issue. Why didn't you just come out and clearly state that as with most "rules" there are exceptions. Point out the exceptions and everyone would have said, "oh good point." But I guess you still say this young Jedi should girth hitch wire cable whether it is encased or not. I agree the personal attacks are not proper. But bull shit is bull shit.

Are they actually available yet? I checked mgear.com, not on the webpage; I checked REI, none there (nothing shocking about that); I checked Feathered Friends, none there; I checked Second Ascent, none there. Anybody know? Anybody actually seen these?

verticalturtle: "My only thought on them is that depending on how you are attaching them to a pack the stiff zetyl for the toe section may interfere with say a sleve style crampon pocket." Actually it is not a problem. The zytel stuff attaches to crampons with a pin/rivet (don't know what you would actually call it) that lets you rotate the zytel downward closer to the crampon decreasing the profile so it cab slide into such a pocket. Dru is correct, the 2Fs will let you practice being stiltwalker. Then again, if the snaow is that soft, take em off.

Grivel 2F = very good crampon. Durable, and can become a "rigid" platform for easier water ice and hard alpine ice. A pretty agressive set of front points and secondary front points. Lighter than many steel crampons, but still a heavy crampon. One bad thing is that these tend to ball up when the snow gets soft, and I mean WAY worse then the G12. I have a pair and like them. Grivel G12 = I have a pair and really like them. They fit well on a large range of boot sizes and type. Durable and with the same agressive front points as the 2F. Not light weight. At retail pricing, I recollection is that this one is cheaper than most. Doesn't ball up like the 2F. I have a pair and I like them. I believe the new-matic system is the way to go. If your intended use is basic glacier mountainering, I would look into an aluminum crampon. I have a pair of Lowe/Camps and I LOVE them. They weigh half what most steel crampons do. Charlet Moser makes nice stuff, but my first hand experience is limited. So I'll stop there. Good luck...let us know what you go with and why. Also after you have used them a while post a gear review.

I was there and saw them as well. They had around 6 to 8 packs of various sizes. I thought they were $299.00 but don't quote me either. I also thought they were the "Terraplane LT" model, but again I am not positive. Give them a call.

I agree with Erik's assement....and AlpineK's somewhat joking view is right on too. Like OP or not the guy waded into the fire and took on his detractors effectively. He stated clear and cogent reasoning for Omega's actions. What more could we ask for? No one from TNF ever posts here (substantivley anway). Go Omega...and Allison I respectfully disagree with you. Where you stand depends on where you sit. I hear your stance and that is cool. But I'm going to continue to buy the stuff.

Camazonia wrote: "The USA was built on UNION labor and is the backbone of this country.....the USA would not be the leader of the free world had it not been for union labor." Oh spare me. Union labor is only one part of a sophistcated and diverse economy. Unions had nothing to do with westward expansion, little if anything to do with Tech advances, and are shrinking in numbers because they are so inflexible and corrupt. The corruption element is a major reason why Unions are having such problems today. I believe unions have thier place, but reason we are the leader of the free world? Get over it. Go Michael!!! I am going to run out and get some of the new biners. Anyone seen these in stores yet?

I was there as well and concur with W's assesment. It was constructive. I sensed a bit of tension between Todd B of AAI and Old Lou (but nothing big so don't blow it out of proportion) regarding the last time the bids for being "the" guide service was done. It does appear that shuttles are going to be in Rainier's future, not just for climbers either. Most seemed to agree that the users days should not be increased, at least by much, but rather that the "pie" should be divided up more equally. Mike Gauthier was there and the diologue was good. It did not turn into a bitch session. I stressed that they need to get the plan right as opposed to being on time and that guide services should be checked out every five years or so, weeding out the bad and allowing in the new.

Phatty Matty Funny guy. Matt given your profession, do you know any Omega Pacific employees?

Oh....see I learned something new today. Cool. I have the Racing and the spike is not the best. So the other spike is better? I have to check that out. Thanks for the clarification!!!

And stand under it without a helmet. Would that even make the accidents in N.A. Mountainering...or maybe the Darwin awards? Maybe both?

Looks interesting: Omega - New Biner by Prison Labor

genspires: "Anyway, the day my flash dies I will replace it with a grivel air tech and cut off the rubber grip." What I meant was that you don't have to buy the Grivel Air Tech and cut off the rubber grip, you can just buy the Air Tech Racing, since it is the Air Tech without the rubber grip. But if you want to buy the Grivel Air Tech and cut off the rubber grip, that is your choice. Aree we misunderstanding each other here? I might not have understood your post? Sometimes "text only" is easy to misread.

Freeclimb9 "I'll continue to girth hitch gear when I'm running low on carabiners high on a pitch (or linking slings together to form a longer one), and I won't be worrying about a sling getting cut or melting." But he was asking if he should do it from the get go, actually as a plan...not just when he is running low on biners high on a pitch. Also most of your info as cited pertains to strengths, not rope bearing surface and or cutting ability? It doesn't matter how strong a rope or a draw is, it can still be cut. The smaller the rope bearing surface the greater the "cutting" effect on the rope or draw. Is it a hot knife through butter? No...that is why I even said it can be done at times (in a pinch), but it GREATLY increases the risk. If that is a risk you choose to take, go ahead. But this young Jedi needs to be informed of the risk associated with this tecnique. Good luck....buy Omega Pacific Biners. Only the best prision labor. [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]