Rodchester

Be curious to see what the deaths rates are by climbers attempting: x deaths for every climber attempting summit.

DRU: As I stated earlier, that was what actually happened and I think it directly hit on what W was saying about the well known climbers being to busy and what others were saying about them as well. (Or somethign along those lines). The point is that they would particpate if there wasn't so much BS. That is why the statement was made and I'll make it again. I don't care if you call it name dropping. If the greats are the topic, do you think I shouldn't mention them? The setting was also a clear point. We were doing regular stuff people do. Sorry this complicated concept is lost on you. And DRU, I guess when you dropped names about who does post here, since it was to counter my position it wasn't really name dropping. This one time I was at bad camp.... [ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

DRU: That was exactly my point. Sorry you take things soooo literally. I was trying to raise the issue. Sorry you don't like the fact that I am receiving e-mails from these that agree but do not want to participate and that I used it to demonstrate a point. You have discovered my evil agenda. Next I will conquer the world. I have been burned by you DRU. You have shown me my self-contradiction. I am shamed. Gosh, now you may find out that I am actually one Montgomery Burns of Sprinfield. I am not Rodchester the molester. I am not concerned with spray. AS I HAVE SAID SINCE THIS BEGAN THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT. IT IS ABOUT THE BASELESS LIES. If accusing someone of killing thier spouse is spray then I guess you are right. (I know it wasn't you DRU. I know you are a sprayer and that is cool).

Jim: I didn't mean all people on the site, so I correct that. I mean there are some people that do not like it. You said: "the last thing I would want is to have some type of "PC Censor" to make sure that nobody is offended. I really appreciate and gravitate towards people who are honest and say what they are thinking instead of people who are always worried about what they say or try to tell me what I should and should not say." That is my point. I like the honesty thing and that is one thing I am going after. When someone smears some one without any basis what so ever, that is not honesty. So I am being honest and calling bullshit. I couldn't agree more with you on the "PC Censor" thing. That is why I am directly calling bullshit on it. Not seeking to supress anything that is true. You said: "Why do you give a shit Rodchester about what anybody says about a friend of yours? You know what is true and what is not right? People are going to say and think what they want, there's no controlling that eh?" I give a shit because she is a friend. And even if she wasn't I would stand up to the bullshit. You speak about honesty...well that is exactly my point and that is exactly why I am standing up. No controlling that? Sure, free speech. But I won't be controlled either. Lies will propagate further lies and soon the lies will become the reality, at least in the minds of those who do not know the truth. Jim I would do the same for you if it was the truth. No, I am not trying to be some crusadrer.

DRU: The context of the post did not mean that NO greats EVER post here, but simply that given the amount of greats in the PNW, few actually do. Sorry if you didn't pick up on that context. I will try to be more clear next time. Again, it is not just the greats not being here that concerns me. Too many weekend climber types avoid the site as well. Additionally, the quote was not from a friend. It was, as were most all of the others, from a person I do not even know. Could't tell them from you. On letting it die, thanks for the advice. But no way I am going to let people just bash others with no basis, friend or not. Just not in MY climbers ethic. Sure have fun, but it sqaunders too much of the potential for this site. Actually, Dru where is my self-contradiction?

DRU: "What's up with that lurking behind an alias comment anyways - is your name really "RODCHESTER" or is that some sort of nickname??? .... I mean c'mon what type of weak BS is that?" Are you serious? Ask Capt. caveman, ask AlpineK, etc., etc., Its a screen name...never said or even implied that it wasn't. Not sure I get your point. oh oh oh is DRU REALLY your name??? No Dru I don't care if it is or isn't. "Here is some anonymous person who doesn't even want to post to this bbs but gets you to post a message they send you" Airplane sound here.... Dru, the indivdual that sent me that e-mail, one of many from others, did not direct me to or ask me to post anything. I put it forth as a demonstration of what is being said off site avbout the site. I thought some might find it constaructive. If you missed the context, you missed the context. "ANONYMOUS POSTER - IF YOU READ THIS - WHICH YOU APPARENTLY WILL CAUSE YOU APPARENTLY LURK HERE ALL THE TIME TO SEE A THREAD THAT HAS ONLY BEEN AROUND FOR A FEW DAYS - WHY DONT YOU PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH????" Dru he/she is doing exactly that. Remember "I feel guilty just through association with this website." so they stay away. Why is that so hard for you to understand? People don't like all the crapo that is being flung around. So in response you fling more. Regarding me perpetuating it, there is an element of truth there. And I am sorry but I just cannot accept the bullshit bashing. Sorry I just think the board should be hospitalble for all climbers.

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

You may also want to consider some aluminum crampons for general mountaineering. Light is right. I had the SMC with the scottish straps, which are better than the older system, but they still suck.

DRU: I do agree that "guiding" everest has made it boring in the public eye. The street cannot see the difference between a dog route done siege style and a first ascent done alpine style with difficult techinical sections. As far as guiding in general goes, it is as old as climbing itself.

The best beer is free beer!!!

DRU: I see Jim post occaisionally. That is cool and yes he is one exceptional climber. Not saying Serl isn't a great climber either. Lurking is not posting. I have never said or even implied that these guys aren't great. If you missed the context, you missed the context. I really wasn't getting into specifics of who is great and who is not, but more to do with the bashing that goes on here keeping people, great and no great, away. Especially when the bashing is just a bunch of baseless lies. The web page says it is for all climbers, but the words of many posters sure don't make it sound welcoming to all climbers. As far as name dropping goes, say that you want. I have known Carlos for years. Nice guy, very down to earth. I felt the context of the conversation, that a guy like Carlos can sit at a wedding and talk with guys like myself and Wopper about a low fifth class climb in the tetons as if it were the east face of Everest demonstrated how the "greats" do have time to engange in the conversations that occur here. BTW: you gotta love Jim's store.

I concur with Bronco. I have owned both and the G-12 rocks. Sold my SMCs. Don't miss them.

Oh yeah...and I would like to commend DRU. Once he realized that his statement about CB's book was incorrect (She never wrote any book, it was heidi Hawkins) he retracted his statement and more or less apologized. To his credit, he still stood firm on his dislike of guiding 8000 meter peaks. I respect that. To DRU

jeffers: "Rod, straight up...on a scale of 1 to 10, how pissed was Chris over the original thread?" I won't comment for CB. But let ask this. How pissed would you be if your spouse died and some jackass on this site said that you were the cause of or at least contributed to your spouses death? That is the lowest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. Worthless piece of shit. I hope that CC:er is hit by a bus full of nuns holding babies on the way to the hospital, and it doesn't stop. I would then pee on the CC:ers grave. What a gutless and classless person. No bady wants to be around that kind of person. Why do posters on this site take it? I have received multiple e-mails (and a few telephone calls) from people who completely back me up on this but just don't want to jump into the morass for fear they would be called a homo or thier abilities questioned, or be accused of getting someone killed. As far as the "greats" go I don't mean that they have to be sponsored to be great. I just mean climbers that when thier name is mentioned, most other climbers know who they are. I know that most of the spraying is just off colored fun, but go back and read that thread. Someone like Christine who does all kinds of climbing, including alpine style ascents of 8000 meter peaks, with very (if any) little sponsorship, who has never written a book, who gives a slide show is just riped to shreds? She is called names, her sexuality questioned, lies, lies, lies, accused of hating men in a book she never wrote? Is this off colored fun? One jackass says he can run a guide company better than old Lou yet he just refuses to say how? Real constructive. And of of this from who?

W: "I'm poking fun because it would be funny to imagine a famous, top end climber, partaking in a TYPICAL discussion that goes on here." Funny, I have found many to be incredibly down to earth and regularly particpate in "typical" discusions. No I don't just mean CHris B but I have represented a few very well known climbers in contract matters with sponsors and media outlets. At my wedding I remember talking with Carlos Buhler and Whopper about a 5.5 route and a scramble in the Tetons and it was obvious he enjoyed just talking climbing, 5.0 to 5.14. Alpine, crag, ice, rock. I think a lot more climbers, GREAT and not so great would post here if there wasn't so much smearing going on...not the off colored humor...that is fine.

Jim: I didn't say anything about off colored humor. So obviously I didn't say even imply that ALL Legends are sensitive. I didn't say any are.....smearing is different. It is just interewsting to me that many climbers, and many "well known climbers", call the legends greats what ever, don't seem to post here. Even though I am sure that many do spend time at home and on the web. And Phatty you are great....

Liloeet B.C.

Notice he said guides, as in plural. It take at elast two and two sherpas.

E-Burg can be cool...but it is very cowboy. If that is cool with you...you'll like it. I wouldn't call it a mountain town though.

In an earlier post AlpineK wrote: "In any case claiming to guide on an 8000M peak is fucked up. A person with little O2 can hardly take care of themselves let alone guide. Especially when there are such high stakes.. like the huge fee clients pay to get to the top." I have never done an 8000 meter peak but have always been curious and know many who have. My understanding of the 8000 meter game goes this way. MOST! 8000 meter expeditions are run one of three ways: 1. Non-commercial: This is the more traditional way. It can mean that the fees permits and equipment is funded by governments, individuals, etc. They can be small and fast or large and slow. 2. Commericial unguided: This is a way that has really taken off. Small groups of climbers gang together to pay for the permits, fees, and equipment,(foods fuel, porters). However no one is guided and all are on thier own. Individuals can be sponsored if the wish, but the expedition is not. Some times the permit holder profits and sometimes they do not. These can be small and large at the same time. Part of the permit may work together in classic siege style while others go lighter. Most all solo climbers use this arrangment. 3. Commercial guided: This is the one that draws the evil eye of many climbers. Clients pay a set amount for everything and they are guided. The level of guide service will vary from company to company and expedition to expedition. These are usually run by "companies" and usually seek to make a profit. There are variations of each. Often commercial guided expeditions will allow some climbers to buy into the permit but nothing else. They are on thier own on the mountain. Some times they buy into the permit and some equipment, but are not guided. In actuality, very few people or companies guide 8000 meter peaks and very few 8000 meter peaks are guided. Everest has drawn everyone's attention, but the 8000 meter peak that is guided the lost is by far Cho Oyo in Tibet. Also very few guide companies use gas on any 8000 meter peak besides Everest. I have never heard of anyone guiding K-2 od Kachenjunga (Spelling?) So I am interested to hear what people think regarding the guiding of 8000 meter peaks. Are some clearly guidable? Are some not guidable? How is guiding on an 8000 meter peak different than a lesser altitude peak? Should the guide standard be lower, ie less services on an 8000 meter peak? Should the client's abilites be higher on an 8000 meter peak? If so how much higher? If you just want to spray start your own thread. I am curious to see what others think and believe. ok spray some...but don't hog the ball.

polartec outlet closed Ever heard of a product called sympatex? I have a pair of bibs made out of it and it works better than goretex. Apparently it is big in Europe, or was. They are about 6 or 7 years old now and are on thier last leg. I have heard that GoreTex's worst enemy is salt. It clogs the "pores" in the GoreTex. Hmmm humand sweat..salt...hmmm. Apparently Sympatex does not suffer the same salt problem. Anyone ever use this stuff? It is still a waterproof breathable, so it is not some radical departure from GoreTex. Also it is a lamanent.

I agree with jon. That is exactly why I am trying to get us all to ask ourselves these questions. Come on guys and gals, I love to joke and screw around almost as much as the best of you. But we need to give some room to others who might be new, others that might be very experienced but just can't stand the crap. Sure sometimes a poster deserves it. But until they do we should be a little more respectful and open minded. Yes I have been an ass at times too, I admit it. I really like this site but think that too often a few just bash others to the point of driving away many. (I seriously doubt they mean to do that, but too often they do).

I think she, like many others, only lurks....

W: Some good points...and that is what I have been looking for. I am just pondering and wanted to see what others think.

I guess the context of the posting is lost on some of you. No problem. But for those of you who understand the context of this post feel free to respond.