Rodchester

Is the ice in yet? I doubt it is.... But let us know!!!

I have both but use bibs the most. If there is only a low chance of bad weather and it is warm, I take the pants. In winter I always take bibs. Bibs Pro = Comfort, full coverage (no plumbers crack), warm, easy to waer harness either on top of or under bibs Bibs Con = Heavy, bulky, can be to warm, Pants Pro = generally lighter (less material), generaly less bulk to carry, cooler than bibs, Pants Con = Plumbers crack, less comfortable (unless you get an amazing fit), can be a bit tricky with harness If only owned one, bibs. I really hate plumbers crack, drives me nuts. good luck. Let us know what you get and how you like them.

Sometimes climbers become so focused on their own climb and feel so removed from the "day hikers" that we do things that we should not do. We shouldn't cut trail just to save time or effort. Getting off trial is different, if you are getting to or from a route, or exploring a new route. Cutting trial on snow...no problem what so ever. There are many enviro-Nazis out there....screw them. I think this guy was just making his point about protecting an area that sees a LOT of use. Point well taken. I really wouldn't worry about it or him. If you feel you cut when you shouldn't just don't do it next time. It didn't sound to me like you were plowing through the undergrowth like a heard of elephants, so no worry. my 2 cents [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Because a ti-block does not have a true cam, it uses a biner, it can be misapplied much more easily and thus cause considerably more damage to ropes. If used properly they will still cause more wear than a Jumar, but are still safe.

SEX CHOCALATE: NO such thing as world court and international law. The world court is without an enforcement mechanism, without a legislature to provide laws to enforce, etc etc. International law is the epitome of Darwinistic Capitalism. Seriously. Your view that we should somehow enforce our beliefs on others just because we can reeks of ethnocentrisity and arrogance. Many of these people just want to be left alone. And on the Palastinian isse, what are we to do? Do you have a workable solution. If you have ever spent any time with the man on the dirt street (Palastinians) the VAST majority say there is only one way, either we kill all of them or they kill all of us. Now I know the Palastinian leadership and thier maketing teams puts it differently, the man on the dirt street with a rock in his hand does not. There is no simple simon solution such as waiving a magic US wand that changes our policy, thus changing lives. To quote a close Palastinian friend. "In the mid east, if a dog farts, we blame it on the CIA. This lets us not accept repsonibility for our own actions." Lets climb....

Sexual Chocolate: I agree that this has been a good post....even though not the best place for it. You wrote: "The CIA trained, armed, and funded the soviet resistance in Afghanistan, which then became known as the Mujahedeen. Osama bin Laden was one of the characters who was trained by the CIA, as were many of the current Taliban." Actually, the Taliban and the Mujahadeen are very different. They battled it out recently (Mid 1990s) and the Majahadeen lost. Per the standard in the region, the looser capitulated and joined the victor. Usama bin Laden really did not do much in the war against the Soviets. At the time they realized that bin Laden was more valuable raising funds and lobbying well to do supporters through out the world. bin Laden's actual military training is very little and his military experience is even less. The CIA did virtually nothing to train bin Laden himself. It should also be noted that it was not until recently, 1998, that bin Laden decided to carry the Palastiian cause as his own. You see bin Laden is a wonderful marketing guy. He understands propoganda unlike any other Islamic fundamentalist. He has identified many down troden Islamic cuases and decided to carry their banner, only because it helps his cause. Addtionally, the majority of the cash used to fund the mujahadeen did not come from the US taxpayer, but from well to do supporters, large corporations in the mideast, and many Arab and Muslim governments. The Taliban is the brian child of the Pakistani inteligence community. The idea was to bring stability to Afghanistan which had known nothing but war for twenty years. To a certain degree, it worked and to a certain degree it failed. The Afghan people (the many nations that make upo Afghanistan) never fully embraced the Taliban. Many of them will embrace the Americans as liberators from the crush that is the Taliban. Contrary to all of the whining I am hearing, we are not bombing the Afghan people. Funny thing is, they seem to know that better than most on this site. Most get out of the way of the bombing and now that Kabul has fallen, they are moving back into town. If you run the numbers I am willing to bet that history will show that at no time in history has the tonage droped to civilian casualty rate been so remarkably low. well sorry for the babling and I truely did not mean to rip on Alpine Tom so much. I actually am an ardent supporter of a Palaitinian state. I have been so for well over ten years. Remember our friend Nevelle Chamberlain and we will have peace in our time!!!

Alpine Tom: I have generally agreed with many of your positions on climbing topics and found you to be level headed. However I stopped shortly through your last post in this thread when you stated "We’re now embracing nation-building, (having carefully learned exactly the wrong lesson from Daddy Bush’s failure in Iraq)" You have got to be kidding me? Where did you dig that one up? Come on. Where are we (USA) nation building? and when did anyone, right left or otherwise, EVER think or state in any forum that what we are doing in Iraq is Nation Building? NATION BUILDING IN IRAQ!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Sorry, I can't STOP HA HA HA HA HA. Oh man...that was good. Seriously don't take it too personal...I just can't help it on this one. Someone trying to say the US is trying to nation build in the secular state of Iraq!!! Good one. What kind of Nation are we building? Iraq is and always (modern history) has been a secular state with many nations within (multi-national state). There are various languages, ethnicities, religions, etc. Who's idea was this nation building in Iraq anyway? Old George or Clinton? Maybe it was that old lady Albright...or maybe Powell is finishng the nation building he began in the early 1990s. If that is how we build a nation we should all be very concerned. See Napoleon and Bismark on lessons in nation building. Oh man this was a good one I will share with my friends in the NSPS circles. Nation building in Iraq...oh man.... [ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Daisey Cutters....yeah baby. Get it straight and make no mistake...they want to and will kill you. This is kill or be killed. No we should kill everyone...of course not. But we do need to kill all of them. Yes...we do need to look at the root cause of thier anger. But don't make the simple simon assumption that a minor or evn major change in policy will make it all go away. No fucking way. I seriously caution the simple simon comparisions between our ongoing experience there and Russia's (or even Britian's). Also camparisons with Vietnam are nothing short of comical and demonstrative of the intelect powering the thought. Russians were invaders and conquerers. The Russians openly attacked Islam and closed mosques. Communisim is godless by idiology. Also the Afghans got their clocks cleaned until they were trained and supplied with superior eqiopment by the Western world. We are not there to occupy. They have NO ONE to supply them with superior equipment. If you need a lesson on Vietnam...take a class. The differences are so many and so grossly simple I couldn't even begin to start. So to sum it all up. Hunt them down like dogs and kill them. Starve them and take away thier support by changeing bad policies...but do not aboandon good policies just becuase the might have some bad effect. Who knows what a daisey cutter is? We need to start using them there en masse. have a nice day...

Well I say that Whopper and I went inmto one place one night for a few cold ones and it was quite clear that we were not welcome there. We stood our graound had a brew anyway and left on our own accord. No fights...but is was painfully clear that we were not welcome there. Since that time we eat at the resturants and go back to our hotel room. No pub crawling for me in Lillooet.

You can always call Mountain Madness for info on Gary's course. Gary Guides for M2 and the course is an M2 coourse. They can set you up. I took it three years ago and learned a lot.

Does anyone know where you/I can buy some of those Arcterex Ice Devices? My buddy has these and they rock for racking screws. I have tried the Trango clips and they only suck a lot. I have tried the old bicycle tube on a bnet gate biner and it is OK...but those ice devices rock.

Dru: Ever read John Hunt's Conquest of Everest? No body hauled anybody's butt up Everst on the first trip. No body. Hillary was at the time and continued to be a very accomplished climber and explorer. I understand the ideas that he couldmn't have done it without the Sherpa argument, but the Sherpa wouldn't have done it themselves either. It took both. Tenzing Norgay is the man in the picture withthe flags on the summit. Hillary was VERY big on seeing to it that the Sherpa received all the credit they deserved.

Ropegun 2001, You wrote: "There are a few documented cases where the harness makers hold the harness user liable for not using the rappel/belay loop during a harness failure." Could you please explain and tell me where I can get the documentation? How can a harness maker hold a user liable? Do you mean the harness maker denied liability for an accident? Just curious.... I only use the belay loop and have heard many manufacturers state that the designa nd material dictate that the belaty loop is the only prescribed use. (BD, Trango, Metolious, & Petzl) my two cents.....

Whopper, The simple fact of the matter is that most people just do not understand the law and assume that there will be a law suit anytime someone is hurt. This is just not the case. Regarding suits that settle I know of one...that's right only one. Are there more...maybe. These settlements are driven by cosst of litigation analysis done by actauries at insurance companies and never reflect the actual merits of a case. Bill Robbins has taken steps that he feels protects this woman and her property rights. Ok, but fear a suit is unfounded on many levels. Acceptance of risk alone would control...but also the duty owed to a tresspasser is minimal to none. So in this case she bears no liability what so ever. Bill seems to imply that modifying the property with bolts creates a liability. The question to ask: Are bolts an attractive nuisances? Well that issue is untested before a court and I think it will not succeed. An attractive nuisance calls out to people. (Swimming pool is an example of an attractive nuisance). Does a bolt call out to someone? Well maybe a climber...but remember climbers accept the risk. Regarding Bill's question of whether or not anyone would help her with an attorney...the answer is yes. First off I would, as would a handfull of other attorneys around. Additionally, the Access Fund, AAC, and other groups often provide funding to educate landowners and help out in the few lawsuits that do arise. AAC and the Access Fund are GREAT groups to give to. Paranoia and simple-Simon assumptions often lead to knee jerk reactions as in this case. But at least Bill meant well and was actually looking out for others. he is however incorrect. If Bill would provide me with the woman's address and telephone number I would be happy to discuss any concerns based on the law and actual liability. Maybe we could take this as an opportunity to open the area to new climbs and make sure the home owner's concerns are addressed. Anybody agree?

They are right next to the Tractor Tavern on old ballard ave.

Some leathers are great for vertical water ice, but most are not. If you are going with leather and want to use it on water ice make sure it a a fully rigid sole designed to take a water ice crampon. Most leather mountianeering boots will not make a good water ice boot. Some will most won't. One thing to REALLY keep in mind, I understand that you are in MN and Ontario area? If that is true you know what cold is...much colder there than here and even much of coastal Alaska. Plastics will keep the feet warmer...no doubt. The PNW is actually a very warm range and many of the people out here have no idea what real cold is. (But a lot of the climbers do). But there are some leathers that have some insulation and are good for ice (Tecnica Altitude plus - actually a combo of some leather and synthetic that is popular among many water ice climbers)....but are no where near as warm as a good pair of plastics. Good luck

I think Messner said "murder" of the impossible. But I agree with your sentiment, to a point. Let the yuppies have their toys. Do you really think anyone will buy this AND actually use it? No.

Ok I have a question....in another thread on ice climbing I picked up a very distinct additude towards Krakauer. So what is the big problem? So he writes about climbing and the outdoors and makes solid cash doing it. He is a damn good writer, FAR better than most climbers. He is a good climber too. Do we rip on other climbers who can't on sight a 5.13c sporto route, or dig on a aid climber for not doing a route with five hook moves in a row, or tear into a alpine guy who won't lead a 5.11 grade IV? Why rip on Jon K? Is it that he somehow "sold out"? or what? Sure the whole 1996 Everest thing between him and Anatoli stirred up some personal feelings for some close to the situation, but did he really say or write anything that outrageous? They had different views...so does that mean we rip on Jon K? Just looking for opinions and trying to get why people say things about Krakauer.

Law suits are rare to non-existent. Saying the owner fears a suit is just bullshit. There has NEVER been a climbing suit go to jury in this state and I don't believe any other state. Climbing is considered and inherently dangerous activity and any participation by anyone is considered an acceptance of risk. This means you are on your own. Bill robins is a bit of an odd duck but I have found him to be a nice guy in person. Can't speak to his actions on this. Sounds like bull shit to me...but I would like to hear his opinion. Maybe he will post?

Wes, I have used the regular grivel screws, without the quick turn handle. I found the screw to be infrior to the BD. They were tough to place and tough to get started as well. I know others that have expressed the same opinion. Also the turn handle is large and just seems like it would get in the way and get caught up on things. If you get some let us know how they place and how they wear.

Hey Lambone, Good info...I agree...I have stopped using a daisey because they do just get in the way. They are safe and strong. Good idea to back up the clove hitch...I must admit, I rarely do though.

I'm with DRU. Numbers should help us...not be bragging rights. I couldn't give a shit about some asshole who brags about climbing 5.whatever...but I will high-five someone who pushes themselves to be better and is proud of themselves...especially if they buy a round. mmm beer

South Arete on EWS. Easy and fun route. learn to simul-climb too.

Snowfield = an area/patch/field of snow that does not melt out on a yearly/seasonal basis. Many snow fields are glacial remants...such as the Muir snowfield on Rainier. That is why you will have crevasses on SOME snowfields. But not all snowfields were once glaciers. Glacier = A dynamic section of ice built up to the point that its own weight causes it to move. Usually it reaches terminal depth at 100 feet of compacted thickness. It thenn moves toward the path of least resistence. Belive it or not it is possible to move straight down...yes down. When the glacier builds up an incredible amount of weight though ice thickness (usually around 1000 feet thick...no there are none on earth like this today) it begins to compress the earth's crust and push straight down. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no easy answers to glaciers receeding and advancing. Many have huge advances based on the same principal as hydroplaning. The water melt builds up and the glacier make big advances quickly by surfing, so to speak. Sometimes the build up can be such that a glacier should be moving fast...and it is not. It could be held up by some feature under the glacier that is providing more than normal resistence to the glaciers' movement. Until the glacier either changes directions or eventually defeats the resisting feature, the glacier may not move. There are soo many vairables and we just know so little about them. Dry Glaciers = When a glacier moves it picks up all kinds of rock and dirt from the peaks and walls around it. As the glacier pushes this material towrds its snout, or terminous, the ice begins to melt away. This leaves what appears to be a huge boulder field...which it is....but is it a huge bouldr field on top of a still moving and active glacier. This are actually quite common in South America. I have crossed a few. One question is: At what point does a receeding glacier become a snow field? No I am not a glaciologist and don't claim to be be one. But I have read about and observed glaciers for more than a few years. Anayway..that is my 50 cents.

At least we all like beer...right?