jon

Hey no worries my friend it was just an interesting observation and I suspected just that. Erden you strength is contagious, stay strong brother, and for gods sake get some sleep.

Hey I've got a suggestion, GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!! While for a while I found your guys antics entertaining now they are just pure irritating and insulting. Here Dwayner bitches about how this site jumped shark or whatever but a lot of his arguement is pure hypocricy. He has done more than his fair share of bashing people let me tell you. How about the email Dwayner sent me about the return of Donna Top Step becaue this site just wasn't "funny" anymore? Christ I'm sorry Dwayner that you aren't having fun anymore, but seriously dude when you start creating an atmosphere that is defaming to women posters what do you think is going to happen? Women climb too Dwayner though if you want we could make this a sausage party. Then the first time you meet me at Pub Club you have the audacity to question my decision with the whole "internet cop" bullshit. Considering how abrassive you were instead of being cool about it I should have told you bite my ass. Does you wife read what you post, wonder what she would think if she did? I wish I had the time that some of you guys did to post nonstop garbagte while I'm working my fucking ass off so I can eat, because you know what I would do? Not be in front of a computer that is for sure. Face it, you guys are here purely for entertainment value and thus will receive little sympathy from me or others. Oh wait, you'll get none. You make it seem like you care about the direction of the content of this site? If you did you would on occasion post beta or trips reports or whatever instead of crapping in sleeping bags and pictures of that Stoppard idiot and the non stop diatribe about bolting and how vantage sucks. You didn't even have the decency to hold back on the thread about Goran's death. This site is nothing without the users. The content is as good as what the users post. The more people posting info the better. If you want to see this site realize it's potential then post stuff that is usefull to your fellow climbers and the occasional good laugh. If you just want to be an idiot then register lots of screen names and post about crapping in sleeping bags. Or you can just get lost.

I haven't had the chance to read through a lot of the recent posts on this thread but I did read the what was posted on everestnews.com and it seemed very inaccurate to what has been posted here. I don't want to thread creep here but here is something that I was curious about. I was looking at various local news sources including some climbing websites to see what "news" they had about the accident. In two of the three articles I found they had taken the text directly off this site without referencing the actual source. Now I'm not bent out of shape out of this, but aren't they supposed to do that?

TOOOOOOFFF!!!

quote: Originally posted by Attitude: quote:Originally posted by jon: I think one of the questions is whether it is worth figuring out what the specifics of what went wrong, regardless a very insperational person is now gone.... I'm not sure what lesson is to be learned here. We place gear on lead and call it 'pro' - protection - because we expect it will hold and save us from long falls. In this instance, it didn't work. The goal should be to figure out what went wrong so that we can improve our protection systems and reduce the chance of it happening again. One positive result of this discussion is to get people thinking critically about protection from all angles, including gear, gear selection, placement and technique, and maybe learn a little more to improve our own climbing. Thanks. Attitude, very crafty way of quoting me, you may have a future in politics. Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that it wasn't worth it in this case, just saying there there are instances where there are so many factors involved with so many unknowns that you speculate all you want and analyze the thing to death, and what you can end up with is conclusions on both sides of the spectrum. Even in those situations there are lessons to be learned. I think as more information becomes available about the exact gear and as the accident becomes more pieced together, This has been a really great thought provoking discussion, and even though it is a result of something incredibly tragic and sad I think a lot of people will come out of this with thinking more critically about how they climb as well as a newfound appreciation for life.

I've tried to figure out what I should say here and I think I'll offer my views from the perspective (as usual) of someone who witnessed a friend have an accident of the same magnitude but with a different outcome, and had to confront the same questions being posed here; what happened? In February we were climbing at the feathers and my friend topped out of a climb, got ready to be lowered, came out of his rope, and took a 60 foot groundfall. The imagery of Erden's account was just way to real and upsetting for me. What I experienced that cold February day in Vantage I hope I never have to experience again, seeing a friend bleeding and unconscience on the ground and waiting a week while he is in a coma to see if he'll come back to us, and what the end result. I'm very thankful that my friend survived his accident although he has had a very long recovery (he made his first trip to the climbing gym last week). I'm more grateful now considering Goran's unfortunate accident from the same height. I think one of the questions is whether it is worth figuring out what the specifics of what went wrong, regardless a very insperational person is now gone. The outcome of an "investigation" may not be comforting to some especially if the conclusion is "human error". On the other hand though if there is some equipment defect then that needs to be identified to save others the pain that Goran's family and friends are undoubtebly going through right. In the case of my friends accident we will never know what exactly happened, we have ideas, but he doesn't know what went wrong and neither do we. And it doesn't matter, because what's important is not what went wrong but what lessons are to be learned from it. What we learned is that accidents can happen anywhere, whether it is at a roadside crag like Vantage or days out in the Pickets, and you need to be prepared to deal with the situation. Another lesson learned is you never can be to cautious, and while things like constantly checking your partners knots and using the verbal commands straight out of Freedom of the Hills may seem silly at times it's worth it considering the potential consequences. I'm not sure what lesson is to be learned here. Maybe some newcomer here will read about what is being discussed and take into greater consideration the risks of climbing and proceed with greater caution? Maybe the hardmen will too? While I'm upset over the tone of Dwayner's comment, the reality is that even a world class climber who may seem immortal to many can die at a place as benign as Vantage.

HURRAY IT'S OUR BIRTHDAY!!!!! After running this thing for two years now I can honestly say that I'm much stupider after reading all this crap and meeting some of you. HEY WERE ARE THE PRESENTS!!!

My boss saw Lowell's presentation at the Mountie lodge at Mt. Baker ski area and said it was incredible. Thanks for posting the info Lowell!

quote: Originally posted by trask: WTF?? Can you post here unregistered? I thought this was an exclusive club. Who let the dogs out? Trask you idiot it's obvious that their member file is corrupted CM3 send us an email with you registration info and we'll get you fixed up.

I've been told that the family has been notified since it has been in the press in Sweden since this morning. What an incredible person, my thoughts are with the friends and family.

The topic concerning the accident at Vantage has been moved temporarily until the family can be notified, this has been requested by local friends. Thanks for your understanding. Jon

I'll do it for $100!

Those Chinese better not shoot at any more climbers or we'll have to drop some lazer guided horsecock on their ass!

We should do a milk challenge, I remember reading about them doing this at an Access Fund party in the valley a long time ago. You have to drink one gallon of whole milk in one hour and hold it down for another hour. If anybody manages to do it they get a prize.

I'd be pissed off too if I couldn't use Google any longer!

"Daddy?" "Yes sweety?" "Those people on the hill wearing tight neon clothes, are those gapers daddy?" "Yes honey, those are gapers."

Performance will match any advertised price, just bring in the printed out page or the magazine.

Hey somebodies birthday is on the 2nd! Who could it be?

snoboy, why isn't your name freshiekid?

jury is out: you're a dork, get a life. how do you plead no matta yo guilty.

Am I going to be climbing at Smith and riding endless singletrack for the next three days and drinking the finest brew that Bend has to offer? HELL YEAH! YEHAWWW!!!!

Or you could get a 4.5 pound can for $25 at Performance Bike!

I hate error messages.

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: "Now as for all of you that view all power generation and progress a terrible thing. Stop and think what your negative attitude would do if applied correctly to actually help put progress to work in a healthy way. Knee jerk attitudes on both sides just results in neither side listening, so we end up with very little to zero change in the way big business operates." Shut up before the Doctor punches you square in the nose, you fossil-fuels tool! Hey DFA where is the power coming from that powers you computer that you spray on all day long? How did you get to work today? How do you get to Smith, do you ride your bike? In other words STFU!!!!!!!