Ticket for not having wilderness permit

[wetslide]

So I was up in the liberty bell group and forgot to put uP my wilderness permit. Came back on Saturday and had a 75$ ticket. Anyone here ever fight one of these and if so how did you do so and how did it turn out?

Thanks,

Cb.

[Pete_H]

Find out who administers the violations. In Leavenworth area it used to be the AG's office in Yakima, for example. It probably says on the ticket. Call them up and tell them you had a permit but forgot to display it. Hopefully they'll take care of it for you.

[JasonG]

Funny you should ask, the exact same thing happened to me 7 years ago. We photocopied our valid trail park pass and sent a letter explaining what had happened to the appropriate office (it will say where on the ticket). Then, we left the country for a couple of months and returned home to find an arrest warrant for my wife in our mail box (the car was in her name). Somehow they hadn't connected the letter to the violation (though I had referenced the violation number in the letter) and it went through the courts with a "failure to appear", etc., etc., while we were out of the country. I guess somewhere along the way, they decided that she needed to be arrested.

 

I called the US attorney's office in Yakima and reamed someone out for wasting so much taxpayer money on such a trivial matter. They dropped the case and left us alone after finding the letter on someone's desk. Hopefully you have a better experience.

 

I have a hunch that a significant portion of the monies collected under this program go to enforcement, without a whole lot going to backcountry improvements. Most of the work I see done on trails is by WTA volunteers.

[genepires]

wait, you need a permit for the blue lake trailhead? Which permit is needed?

[JasonG]

Trail Park Pass. Wetslide used the term wilderness permit, but it isn't a wilderness area. Just the standard parking permit that we know and "love".

[Crillz]

I thought you were just supposed to park on the shoulder just outside the parking sign.

[sobo]

wait, you need a permit for the blue lake trailhead? Which permit is needed?

Little story to tell here...

Last September, I was up at the Blue Lake TH with my GF at the time. We had been biking on the MVSTA trail earlier, and I wanted to take her up to see the Liberty Bell Group (she's not a climber). We pulled into the TH parking lot to see a large-ish female ranger ticketing vehicles. Playing like a simple touron, I asked her what she was doing.

 

Her: "Writing tickets to these people that aren't displaying a parking pass."

Me: "You have to have a pass to park here?"

Her: "Yup, sure do. You can get them right here at the kiosk. Some people just won't."

Me: "Oh, so the passes/fee envelopes are available right here at the parking lot?"

Her: "Yup, sure are. You need to get yourself one if you're going to stay here, or I'll have to ticket you, too."

Me: "What happens if I come here and there's no passes/fee envelopes at the kiosk? What then?"

Her: "Well, if there's none here, then you don't have to pay the fee. We've got no way to know who's paid and who's not in that case."

 

So the point here is, kype all of the passes/fee envelopes and hide them in your vehicle somewhere, and no one has to pay to park that weekend. You're a hero! Just toss the passes when you get home.

 

 

[Riley81]

I love that solution!

[billcoe]

So the point here is, kype all of the passes/fee envelopes and hide them in your vehicle somewhere, and no one has to pay to park that weekend. You're a hero! Just toss the passes when you get home.

 

As much as it yanks my crank to see them attempt to make a buck off of regressive fees that waste most of the revenue generated to simply pay for enforcement, I don't think this is the solution that we should utilizing to be sabotaging the attempt.

 

There is a system in place at the ballot box, and via writing our elected representatives. For myself, I write them on occasion, and these kinds of things don't even hit my radar screen, but write to them you should if anyone is that outraged. I've found it easier to do that via proxy. So getting involved via this group or just getting updates would be worthwhile for folks as well. http://www.westernslopenofee.org/

 

They do a good job of tracking wins for users and giving good advice on counteracting this crap.

 

My opinion only. Regards to all!

[sobo]

Bill,

I whole-heartedly agree that WSNF.org is the way to fight this shite. I've been following Scott Silvers' (another "No Fee" advocate) advice for almost 15 years, ever since "Fee Demo" became "not Demo anymore". I'm not advocating civil unrest with my little discussion with the ranger, but just wanted folks to know that there is a way to circumvent the fee/ticket if they so choose to employ that form of a solution.

[mtn_mouse]

word. stuff like that is happening everywhere. i was at albertsons yesterday and was leaving the store with a cart of food, when they told me i had to pay for it first at the checkstand.

[sobo]

The horror!!!

[Rad]

It's not the fault of these agencies they're put in this position. If they were given a budget they might not have to do this, but...

 

Simple solution: park outside the parking lot on the road. I see more and more cars doing it at different locations. Problem is it still leaves the parks without any $

 

[stevetimetravlr]

Unfortunatly charging for parking and for access is going to become more the rule then the exception at many places from now on. Local, state, and federal governments broke, they are going to do whatever they can to generate revenue. Our State Parks are now in the situation where they need to generate revenue to fund themselves. If they are unable to do so, they will be closed. This whole situation is going to get much much worse in a short period of time as there is no solution on the horizon. Sad times for America.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

It's not the fault of these agencies they're put in this position. If they were given a budget they might not have to do this, but...

 

Simple solution: park outside the parking lot on the road. I see more and more cars doing it at different locations. Problem is it still leaves the parks without any $

 

Parks are put at the bottom of the priority list .... because our government gets away with doing that

[ScaredSilly]

I got a similar ticket once while parking on the state highway right-a-way. At the court house I asked the FS officer to produce the law that said the feds could cite some one when their vehicle was on STATE land. I also asked them about how under the fee program they could cite a vehicle when the program was to collect fees from people. Which then led to my next question, though my vehicle was there they had no proof that I was. Further, if I had been there they had no proof I was recreating.

 

My friend's trick. He would take the envelop and put the receipt portion in his window. Not wanting to litter he would put the empty envelop into the drop box. See the person who collects the fees is not the LEO who tickets the vehicles. So the left does not what is happening on the right.

 

To the OP send a USPS certified letter with explanation to the court. Hopefully they will toss it.

 

[Figger_Eight]

word. stuff like that is happening everywhere. i was at albertsons yesterday and was leaving the store with a cart of food, when they told me i had to pay for it first at the checkstand.

 

lolz

[Buckshot]

I used to write a TON of tickets, let me help you a little on this.

 

The ticket is to the registered owner of the car. It is up to the courts to prove it was you parking/driving. You don't have to proove you WEREN'T driving, just create reasonable doubt. I would NEVER advoocate lying in court BUT if you said you weren't driving it that week or that a friend had been borrowing it they would have to proove that you were.

 

This also works for speed camera tickets.

 

Good luck.(free advice is worth what you pay for it)

[wetslide]

Update: just sending out a photocopy of the pass and ticket to the violations bureau. I'll update when I find out what they do with it.

[Lisa_D]

We scanned and emailed a copy of the park pass once, and that worked pretty well too. (you also have a record of the sent email in case they question you)

 

 

[Off_White]

Crillz has it right, park before there's a sign and you're legal, no shenanigans involved. I've done it at lots of NW Forest Pass sites and never had a problem. You might have to walk a little bit, but so what.

[genepires]

Crillz has it right, park before there's a sign and you're legal, no shenanigans involved. I've done it at lots of NW Forest Pass sites and never had a problem. You might have to walk a little bit, but so what.

 

did that at the stuart lake TH on a busy weekend with no tickets. The sign was all of 50 yards from the TH.

[sobo]

Crillz has it right, park before there's a sign and you're legal, no shenanigans involved. I've done it at lots of NW Forest Pass sites and never had a problem. You might have to walk a little bit, but so what.

did that at the stuart lake TH on a busy weekend with no tickets. The sign was all of 50 yards from the TH.

I thought the law was you had to park a 1/4 mile from the sign. Has that been relaxed now to being just outside of the limits of the sign?

[genepires]

unknown. It was a bit of an experiment on my part. Maybe I just got lucky.

[Crillz]

Crillz has it right, park before there's a sign and you're legal, no shenanigans involved. I've done it at lots of NW Forest Pass sites and never had a problem. You might have to walk a little bit, but so what.

did that at the stuart lake TH on a busy weekend with no tickets. The sign was all of 50 yards from the TH.

I thought the law was you had to park a 1/4 mile from the sign. Has that been relaxed now to being just outside of the limits of the sign?

 

I've parked outside the sign at the Blue Lake TH everytime I've been there (maybe 8 times). Done it many other places too. Went to the X38 farside to be part of that joke on Sunday. Parked just the other side of that Discover Ass sign and had no ticket.