Draws Taken from Little Si!

[Josh_HC]

they should really fix that route with permadraws...it is one of the best climbs at little si

[bigwallben]

they should really fix that route with permadraws...it is one of the best climbs at little si

 

Aren't you suppose to be playing with electricity? And, are you referring to Reptiles or Jug or not?

[orion_sonya]

they should really fix that route with permadraws...it is one of the best climbs at little si

 

Aren't you suppose to be playing with electricity? And, are you referring to Reptiles or Jug or not?

 

both are the best routes there. I will go ahead and fix some draws. good idea.

[RuMR]

To leave gear hanging on harder routes at a well established sport crag is SOP. To claim other wise is to make an attempt to justify ones dislike of "project gear" and excuse climbers taking others gear as "expected". Any even remotely experienced climber worth a damn can pretty easily tell booty (in a crack or what have you) or a bail biner/draw vs project draws. While there may be some grey areas they're few and far between. Single Biner at the crux bolt? Bail. Cam in crack with no one to be seen - booty. 5 draws on a hard route - Project.

See here for reference chart.

 

 

I'm not naive though. I wouldn't leave draws hanging @ L-worth, Index or Vantage and expect to see them again. They're NOT established SPORT areas but a mix of many styles. Exit 32 and Smith - different story.

 

The "SOP" noted above is "LAME". Plenty of folks don't care about personl "proj"'s and it is seen as selfish and obstructive.

 

And the above cited "reference chart" which claims there is only one rule (don't be an a-hole)...is literally FULL OF RULES!!!

 

And one more thing....the oft-commented upon Smith Rocks draw-poacher video: after watching that confrontation several times, I'm not sure who is more ridiculous: the guy stripping the route, or the characters who think they have a right to leave their stuff there as long as they want because the route is apparently extra-hard thus justifying the sport-climbing version of a Himalayan siege-climb. Plenty of laughs in that scenario inspired by both sides. Here's a rule: with very few exceptions (e.g. rap stations), TAKE YOUR TOYS BACK HOME WHEN YOU'RE DONE PLAYING FOR THE DAY.

Here's a rule for you, don...TAKE YOUR KEYBOARD, PLACE IT ON THE GROUND AND STEP ON IT...BE SURE TO TIDY UP AFTERWARDS...douchebag...

 

[Rad]

they should really fix that route with permadraws...it is one of the best climbs at little si

 

Aren't you suppose to be playing with electricity? And, are you referring to Reptiles or Jug or not?

 

both are the best routes there. I will go ahead and fix some draws. good idea.

 

I know you're being sarcastic - hope so at least - but how about replacing those wierd Burdo bolt/anchor things where he cut grooves in the rock to avoid buying a bolt hanger? Those things have seen a LOT of traffic over the years. I would hate to see someone take a real lead fall on one.

[orion_sonya]

they should really fix that route with permadraws...it is one of the best climbs at little si

 

Aren't you suppose to be playing with electricity? And, are you referring to Reptiles or Jug or not?

 

both are the best routes there. I will go ahead and fix some draws. good idea.

 

I know you're being sarcastic - hope so at least - but how about replacing those wierd Burdo bolt/anchor things where he cut grooves in the rock to avoid buying a bolt hanger? Those things have seen a LOT of traffic over the years. I would hate to see someone take a real lead fall on one.

 

That is a good idea and I know I have flaked on you getting up there to make it happen. That said every time I have pulled one of the old chain hangers and bolt, I am surprised how well the bolt/cone and sleeve has held up. They are weird though and I would like to get rid of all of them at some point.

[Off_White]

Looks like I misread...and stuck my big fungal toed foot in my mouth. I will never, ever be able to climb that grade. I was under the impression that Oval Orifice is 10b, not 13-.........yup, there it is right there on MP.com. Sorry I can't be your new hero.

 

Hey, revising an opinion based on new information is a quality bit of human interaction, so consider yourself still eligible for hero status. Character matters as much as talent in my book.

[Off_White]

I'm too lazy to look it up myself. Do any of you lawyer types know where the law stands on removing toys from public land? It's not like a cat burglar shadow danced his way into your house and snatched your much throttled Prince Adams action figure out of your secret toy box.

 

I wonder about this too. Here in Olympia people will leave their lawn chairs out on the main drag for days in advance of the Lakefair Parade just to claim their location. That stuff sure looks like sweet booty to me, and in my experience you've always had to put a human in attendance to hold a place in line.

 

Are you really "sending a proj" when you don't even hang the draws on your attempt?

 

That's the funny thing, the high end climbing world seems to consider pre-placed draws acceptable for a red point, though we all know it makes things easier (not only to you spend less time, your reach to clip can be 12" less). I still embrace the term "pink point" for that sort of thing, but I'm an out of fashion old fart, and I suspect you might be as well.

[backclipped]

Old fart? Well, I'm no spring chicken, but I haven't quite crested the hill yet...or maybe I have--what the hell is up with skinny jeans. What the hell is up with skinny jeans with the baggy jean ass/crotch sag?

 

Pink point sounds good to me--it's a washed-out color that really lacks decisive character.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2011 by backclipped

[Drederek]

I still embrace the term "pink point" for that sort of thing, but I'm an out of fashion old fart, and I suspect you might be as well.

I am as well And I go so far as to call it a something generally very pink point

[RafalA]

The "SOP" noted above is "LAME". Plenty of folks don't care about personl "proj"'s and it is seen as selfish and obstructive.

 

And one more thing....the oft-commented upon Smith Rocks draw-poacher video: after watching that confrontation several times, I'm not sure who is more ridiculous: the guy stripping the route, or the characters who think they have a right to leave their stuff there as long as they want because the route is apparently extra-hard thus justifying the sport-climbing version of a Himalayan siege-climb. Plenty of laughs in that scenario inspired by both sides. Here's a rule: with very few exceptions (e.g. rap stations), TAKE YOUR TOYS BACK HOME WHEN YOU'RE DONE PLAYING FOR THE DAY.

 

+1

 

Leave stuff in the outdoors = booty.

 

Accidentally leave stuff (ie. drop, lose, fall out of pack, etc.) = post in Lost & Found = booty unless claimed

[Raindawg]

Here's a rule for you, don...TAKE YOUR KEYBOARD, PLACE IT ON THE GROUND AND STEP ON IT...BE SURE TO TIDY UP AFTERWARDS...douchebag...

 

Mr. RuMR whom I've never met: Have you read the new site guidelines about conduct and personal attacks? Time to reassess your behavior and learn to address alternative perspectives in a civil manner. Moderators...please send him packing!

[DRep]

Here's a rule for you, don...TAKE YOUR KEYBOARD, PLACE IT ON THE GROUND AND STEP ON IT...BE SURE TO TIDY UP AFTERWARDS...douchebag...

 

Mr. RuMR whom I've never met: Have you read the new site guidelines about conduct and personal attacks? Time to reassess your behavior and learn to address alternative perspectives in a civil manner. Moderators...please send him packing!

 

I am 100% sure that the majority of users on this site would like to see you packing Raindawg.

[Rad]

Here's a rule for you, don...TAKE YOUR KEYBOARD, PLACE IT ON THE GROUND AND STEP ON IT...BE SURE TO TIDY UP AFTERWARDS...douchebag...

 

Mr. RuMR whom I've never met: Have you read the new site guidelines about conduct and personal attacks? Time to reassess your behavior and learn to address alternative perspectives in a civil manner. Moderators...please send him packing!

 

I am 100% sure that the majority of users on this site would like to see you packing Raindawg.

 

Tis certainly ironic. Nonetheless, RD is entitled to express his opinion in a civil fashion. But fear not, for a leopard cannot change his spots, and no new logic or original ideas will emanate therefrom.

 

What bothers me, regardless of the tone of discourse, is when people view and judge others based on their own narrow perspective of the world. This happens on both sides of the argument. Maybe if we could all learn to be tolerant of the views and values of others we would not be such a polarized cc.com group, and for that matter such a polarized and paralyzed nation.

 

More sickie and less

[DRep]

Here's a rule for you, don...TAKE YOUR KEYBOARD, PLACE IT ON THE GROUND AND STEP ON IT...BE SURE TO TIDY UP AFTERWARDS...douchebag...

 

Mr. RuMR whom I've never met: Have you read the new site guidelines about conduct and personal attacks? Time to reassess your behavior and learn to address alternative perspectives in a civil manner. Moderators...please send him packing!

 

I am 100% sure that the majority of users on this site would like to see you packing Raindawg.

 

Tis certainly ironic. Nonetheless, RD is entitled to express his opinion in a civil fashion. But fear not, for a leopard cannot change his spots, and no new logic or original ideas will emanate therefrom.

 

What bothers me, regardless of the tone of discourse, is when people view and judge others based on their own narrow perspective of the world. This happens on both sides of the argument. Maybe if we could all learn to be tolerant of the views and values of others we would not be such a polarized cc.com group, and for that matter such a polarized and paralyzed nation.

 

More sickie and less

 

sickie sickie :moondance: :moondance: sickie sickie

What a sweet world that would be...

[genepires]

What bothers me, regardless of the tone of discourse, is when people view and judge others based on their own narrow perspective of the world. This happens on both sides of the argument. Maybe if we could all learn to be tolerant of the views and values of others we would not be such a polarized cc.com group, and for that matter such a polarized and paralyzed nation.

 

More sickie and less

 

but would it be as entertaining?

[el jefe]

raindawg thread hijack no. 1,007,134: guy just wants his draws back turns into blah, blah, blah, decay of morality, end of the natural world, blah, blah, blah.

 

 

[Rafe1234]

raindawg thread hijack no. 1,007,134: guy just wants his draws back turns into blah, blah, blah, decay of morality, end of the natural world, blah, blah, blah.

 

 

[B Deleted_Beck]

draws are not equivalent to KFC buckets and Big Mac wrappers... they're worth money. and especially when most climbers have a hard enough time scraping and saving to buy their gear, it's bullshit to just walk off with it- whether left there intentionally or not, and whether its a lot or a little.

 

if a bigmac wrapper is chillin in the street against the curb, you pick it up and toss it. if a porche is chillin in the street against the curb, you toss it? hell no- if you're taking it for other reasons. you're depriving the rightful owner of it to convert for personal use. that's the definition of theft. so when you snag draws, obviously deliberately left somewhere, you're taking them with the intent to deprive the rightful owner and to convert to personal use- you HAVE committed theft, regardless of how you try to justify it to yourself.

 

people shouldnt leave their draws all over the place, but they do. people shouldn't jack other peoples' shit, but they do. so take both into consideration.

 

my noob 2 cents.

[kevbone]

I am 100% sure that the majority of users on this site would like to see you packing Raindawg.

 

I disagree with this.

 

And as much as I disagree with Raindawg he is almost always kind and even keeled. I challenge anyone to find where he has attacked you by calling you names. This site absolutely needs folks like Raindawg. You always need the other side to be presented. IMO.

 

I have had my draws taken from a climb I left them on. The only person to blame was myself for leaving them there. I would never post on this or any site requesting them back. It is no different than knowingly leaving them on the ground at the base of the climb then coming back a week later, then being pissed that someone took them.

 

I have no problem with draws left hanging, just dont be pissed when someone else cleans them and takes them. The reality is you left them.

[KirkW]

Here's a rule for you, don...TAKE YOUR KEYBOARD, PLACE IT ON THE GROUND AND STEP ON IT...BE SURE TO TIDY UP AFTERWARDS...douchebag...

 

Mr. RuMR whom I've never met: Have you read the new site guidelines about conduct and personal attacks? Time to reassess your behavior and learn to address alternative perspectives in a civil manner. Moderators...please send him packing!

 

Or do the rules not apply to RuMR?

 

Just looking for a clarification so I know who is allowed to personally attack people on this website and who isn't.

 

I don't always agree with Raindawg but he does have the right to express his opinion as much as the next person. Regardless of whether or not he's good friends with the mods.

[james_e]

All I see are a bunch of self-righteous moral police trying to enforce rules that don't actually exist. This is rock climbing. There are no strict rules. You're climbing at a sport crag, with bolts and huge streaks of chalk covering the rock. Unless you are climbing in an area with actual rules about these sorts of things, please don't take it upon yourself to force your ideals down others' throats.

[G-spotter]

draws are not equivalent to KFC buckets and Big Mac wrappers... they're worth money.

 

so are empty beer bottles. that's how dumpster diving pays for itself

[RuMR]

draws are not equivalent to KFC buckets and Big Mac wrappers... they're worth money. and especially when most climbers have a hard enough time scraping and saving to buy their gear, it's bullshit to just walk off with it- whether left there intentionally or not, and whether its a lot or a little.

 

if a bigmac wrapper is chillin in the street against the curb, you pick it up and toss it. if a porche is chillin in the street against the curb, you toss it? hell no- if you're taking it for other reasons. you're depriving the rightful owner of it to convert for personal use. that's the definition of theft. so when you snag draws, obviously deliberately left somewhere, you're taking them with the intent to deprive the rightful owner and to convert to personal use- you HAVE committed theft, regardless of how you try to justify it to yourself.

 

people shouldnt leave their draws all over the place, but they do. people shouldn't jack other peoples' shit, but they do. so take both into consideration.

 

my noob 2 cents.

rainpooch would likely key the side door of the porsche...just to show his displeasure... Edited June 29, 2011 by RuMR

[RuMR]

I am 100% sure that the majority of users on this site would like to see you packing Raindawg.

 

I disagree with this.

 

And as much as I disagree with Raindawg he is almost always kind and even keeled. I challenge anyone to find where he has attacked you by calling you names. This site absolutely needs folks like Raindawg. You always need the other side to be presented. IMO.

 

I have had my draws taken from a climb I left them on. The only person to blame was myself for leaving them there. I would never post on this or any site requesting them back. It is no different than knowingly leaving them on the ground at the base of the climb then coming back a week later, then being pissed that someone took them.

 

I have no problem with draws left hanging, just dont be pissed when someone else cleans them and takes them. The reality is you left them.

do clown pics representing the opposing viewpoints count? nah, that wouldn't be insulting [rolleyes]