Sport vs Trad

[billcoe]

Any of these hammers?

 

 

The one of the right of the Floozie use to be Mike Jacksons.

[pink]

the child molester, or the one who lives amongst a Ton a Fucking Tweekers....

[billcoe]

always have lots of jump ropes and hoola hoops when the ladies show up...

 

Sounds like a shortage of Crisco, tricycles and midgets is all you are missing.

[Bug]

FYI, I often ask climbers I meet out in alpine settings if they post on CC.COM.

Most say "No".

Reason 1. Assholes/info ratio too high.

Reason 2. Pro bolting as is evidenced by sticking a topo of a sport climb in the wilderness at the top of the "Rock Climbing" forum. And this kind of thread in general.

 

There are a lot of trad climbers out there who do not care to associate themselves with your behavior here or in the mountains.

Piss about eletism all you want.

Then re-read this thread up to this point.

Highschool football locker room comes to mind.

Shit-for-brains is another.

Your wanton drilling is self serving.

I like an occaisional sport route but not every available face needs to be bolted.

For those of you who do not understand the "Leave no trace" concept, sleep out in south Seattle then in a wilderness area. Tell us which one you like best. Or conversly, tell us why you promote destroying pristine environments for your own short term pleasure.

Do future generations have no bearing on your behavior?

If that were the mentality of previous generations we would have not wilderness areas, no National Parks. Why bother saving Index? I only have a couple good decades left there. I'm not spending my hard earned money so a bunch of youngns can climb there and call me an old fart. I'll buy plane tickets instead and go to the Valley or Squamish.

[richard_noggin]

As a lot of climbers have learned that have had to deal with bolt chopping wackos, whether they are right or wrong is not the point with them, stirring up shit to bring attention to themselves is, ignoring them is the worst punishment, responding to their bullshit troll topics is just what they want, consider that when you respond to a bullshit tread like this one your just playing into their troll of trying to get attention and someone to talk smack with

[billcoe]

FYI, I often ask climbers I meet out in alpine settings if they post on CC.COM.

Most say "No".

Reason 1. Assholes/info ratio too high.

Reason 2. Pro bolting as is evidenced by sticking a topo of a sport climb in the wilderness at the top of the "Rock Climbing" forum. And this kind of thread in general.

 

There are a lot of trad climbers out there who do not care to associate themselves with your behavior here or in the mountains.

Piss about eletism all you want.

Then re-read this thread up to this point.

Highschool football locker room comes to mind.

Shit-for-brains is another.

Your wanton drilling is self serving.

I like an occaisional sport route but not every available face needs to be bolted.

For those of you who do not understand the "Leave no trace" concept, sleep out in south Seattle then in a wilderness area. Tell us which one you like best. Or conversly, tell us why you promote destroying pristine environments for your own short term pleasure.

Do future generations have no bearing on your behavior?

If that were the mentality of previous generations we would have not wilderness areas, no National Parks. Why bother saving Index? I only have a couple good decades left there. I'm not spending my hard earned money so a bunch of youngns can climb there and call me an old fart. I'll buy plane tickets instead and go to the Valley or Squamish.

 

For myself:

 

I prefer climbing cracks with no bolts.

 

I prefer putting my own gear for belay anchors.

 

I prefer long multi-pitch routes with no bolts.

 

I prefer a rich and varied life and a balance, and I get sick and tired of the NO BOLT philosophy that Don repeatedly espouses with would essentially eliminate an amazing amount of good rock routes including all Grade 6 El Cap routes.

 

All El Cap routes.

 

All.

 

 

Maybe he wants to go through life boltless, but our lives would be the poorer for it.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

FYI, I often ask climbers I meet out in alpine settings if they post on CC.COM.

Most say "No".

Reason 1. Assholes/info ratio too high.

Reason 2. Pro bolting as is evidenced by sticking a topo of a sport climb in the wilderness at the top of the "Rock Climbing" forum. And this kind of thread in general.

 

There are a lot of trad climbers out there who do not care to associate themselves with your behavior here or in the mountains.

Piss about eletism all you want.

Then re-read this thread up to this point.

Highschool football locker room comes to mind.

Shit-for-brains is another.

Your wanton drilling is self serving.

I like an occaisional sport route but not every available face needs to be bolted.

For those of you who do not understand the "Leave no trace" concept, sleep out in south Seattle then in a wilderness area. Tell us which one you like best. Or conversly, tell us why you promote destroying pristine environments for your own short term pleasure.

Do future generations have no bearing on your behavior?

If that were the mentality of previous generations we would have not wilderness areas, no National Parks. Why bother saving Index? I only have a couple good decades left there. I'm not spending my hard earned money so a bunch of youngns can climb there and call me an old fart. I'll buy plane tickets instead and go to the Valley or Squamish.

 

This thread is a troll - look at the first post. It was meant to start shit, and doesn't really belong in this forum to begin with.

 

[billcoe]

the child molester, or the one who lives amongst a Ton a Fucking Tweekers....

 

the former Green Beret/Beacon rock climber.

[billcoe]

As a lot of climbers that have had to deal with bolt chopping wackos, whether they are right or wrong is not the point with them, stirring up shit to bring attention to themselves is, ignoring them is the worst punishment, responding to their bullshit troll topics is just what they want, consider that when you respond to a bullshit tread like this one your just playing into their troll of trying to get attention and someone to talk smack with

 

From the book?

[Bug]

Open discussion is the only hope this site offers from time to time.

Troll or not, large-scale-bolting-control is a worthwhile topic that is too easily polarized.

Why not limit the development of sport areas to a quarter of the pace of current development? or some other "carefully discussed" fraction.

I don't think there are a lot of people out there who think ALL bolts and ALL sport routes should be banned. But there ARE a lot who think the current pace of development is short-sighted, self-serving, and generally apposed to a "leave no trace" concept that has been developed over the last 40 years.

Why didn't Fred use Camelots when he was a teenager?

[pink]

the child molester, or the one who lives amongst a Ton a Fucking Tweekers....

 

the former Green Beret/Beacon rock climber.

 

 

the guy who lives in T.A.F.T.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Open discussion is the only hope this site offers from time to time.

Troll or not, large-scale-bolting-control is a worthwhile topic that is too easily polarized.

 

The post was not about "discussion" just a flame, and nothing was proposed by the thread's originating author.

 

[tanstaafl]

Why didn't Fred use Camelots when he was a teenager?

 

Just a wild guess, but probably because he was 64 years old in 1987, when the BD Camalot was first marketed.

[Bug]

Much of what appears on this site as every-day talk about bolting would have seemed like a "Flame" in the 70's and early 80's.

Raindawg may be "inflammetory" but imo so are many of you to the other extreme. You just have control of this site which allows you to label those with differing opinions however you want.

 

A good discussion about bolting vs trad needs to be ongoing.

Without ethics discussions we will end up with trash.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

A good discussion about bolting vs trad needs to be ongoing.

 

Then start one. Raindawg's thread is not a discussion.

[billcoe]

 

A good discussion about bolting vs trad needs to be ongoing.

Without ethics discussions we will end up with trash.

 

So true, so true. I agree with this 100%. 5 K has it right about not being a discussion on this thread. I think it's more area specific thing rather than just a generic blanket statement kind of thing though. Those guys put a rap line down Royal Arches in Yos fer christsakes! Totally screws up the vibe and the mindset of a route that had been there for many many years. Wish they'd discussed it first, but this is the direction we are heading and I know I agree 100% with Dawg on this new rap line - its not a good thing at all for Arches.

 

Around here, Ozone has bolts. Beacon rarely does. Yet it works, and the discussion should be a local one as well IMO, as thats better than a blanket statement like Dawg is producing.

[Off_White]

Internet discussions about bolting ethics inevitably devolve into silly posturing about how what I do is real climbing and what you do is despicable. I guess it doesn't always devolve though, sometimes it starts out that way. It's not a conversation and its not a debate, its a reiteration of posture and puffed up egotistical onanism. The way internet users talk about this stuff online bears little relation to the way people discuss things in person. It's not a conversation, it's a sermon predicated on the assumption that I'm right and you're wrong.

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Lighten up. It's summer.

 

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

...or I'll sick this zombie after you.

 

[Choada_Boy]

"Leave No Trace": Raindawg practices what he preaches.

 

Everyone knows he flies walks to Egypt before he robs graves conducts research as a ghoul professional explorer and is careful to steal remove no artifacts from desecrated burial sites holy places of internment and place none of them in museum or institutional hordes of stolen goods collections, like some kind of marauding westerner. Anything else would reveal him to be a disgusting hypocrite disgusting hypocrite. Right Indy?

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

I JUST LOGGED ON TO POST IN THIS IMPORTANT THREAD.

 

[Raindawg]

This thread is a troll - look at the first post. It was meant to start sh*t, and doesn't really belong in this forum to begin with....The post was not about "discussion" just a flame, and nothing was proposed by the thread's originating author.

 

Do you really know what it was meant to do??? I don't think so, Kreskin.

 

It was meant to bring up a topic (in a fun way - watch the video) of which I am very passionate about. Don't like it? Can't address the topic? Then ignore it.

 

"Leave No Trace": Raindawg practices what he preaches.

 

Everyone knows he flies walks to Egypt before he robs graves conducts research as a ghoul professional explorer and is careful to steal remove no artifacts from desecrated burial sites holy places of internment and place none of them in museum or institutional hordes of stolen goods collections, like some kind of marauding westerner. Anything else would reveal him to be a disgusting hypocrite disgusting hypocrite. Right Indy?

 

You're really not very bright. Again, what is it that YOU do for a living?

P.S. You obviously don't understand what I preach.

 

 

[PhöQ]

You obviously don't understand what I preach.

 

I dont think any of us really do.

 

You need to take some balance and diversity lessons from O_W IMHO.

[Choada_Boy]

Dear Raindawg, and your constant, worthless drivel:

 

 

Any questions?

[olyclimber]