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Sport vs Trad


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"No, dude...the future is going to judge the current legitimization of sport-climbing as a Dark Age in which the "leave no trace" ethic, adopted by most outdoor pursuits during the last 40 years, has been recklessly ignored for convenience and self-gratification. And mostly on public property....enjoy it while it lasts, because it's not going to last forever.


P.S. It has nothing to do with being "bad ass"...I also face climb just fine."


This is a legitimate claim. You may not like it and you may not agree with it. But eventually, your "bolts everywhere" standard is going to be cut off by legal means.

You moderators are chicken shit assholes for moving this to spray.

CascadeBolters.com is on its way out just like spandex climbing tights.

Fuck off.


Perhaps you're not familiar with the modern vernacular, but when I wrote "dope post" in response to Nolse's posting of the Messner interview/article that means "thanks, great post", you anachronistic coprophag.


Actually, I did not mean to respond to any of your posts. This was a rant directed at whoever moved the thread to spray and anyone who agrees with them. Carry on with your spray.

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I was recently given more or less the entire collection... I've been trying to put them in order but every time I sit down to do so I get distracted by one of the articles :laf:


I was thinking about starting a thread with photos of various articles... thoughts?


That would be super awesome. I'm definitely in favor of a history/literature section where we can read some actual climbing writing from back before the mags were just lifestyle advertisements.


With respect to bolting, it seems like the issue is mostly a non-issue to most people. Certain climbing communities have their own bolting sagas (where one person will bolt and someone else will go chop them), but the climbing community on the whole seems to be mostly in agreement that we should compromise - bolts happen, but you don't bolt a crack that can accept gear (with the exceptions being expanding flakes that will pop, etc.). Rebolting is cool to make unsafe/homemade bolts safe for future generations, but retrobolting is not cool - you don't add bolts to a person's line if those bolts were not originally there. The rest of it is a semantic ethics debate that seems mostly to happen behind the scenes.


If someone doesn't want to clip bolts, then that person probably won't be a face climber, and if that person's not a face climber, then they really have no reason to go around mouthing off about bolts on face climbs! Really, aside from retrobolting and bolting cracks, this is such a non-issue. (We could have a similar discussion about chipping or something.)


It's also funny, re: the Messner article, how we're still getting worked up over the same issues nearly forty years later. (Or make it fifty, what with Robbins vs. Harding in the Valley in the sixties.) Times never change?

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Who wants to join me in the climbers board for a sensitive and respectful discussion about bolting and chopping routes?


I just want you all to know that I only place bolts where I need them, otherwise I think all bolts are total unnecessary trash and an environmental abomination and should be chopped ASAP.


I was just at the base of Cunning Stunt the other day trying to explain to my friend what a travesty it was to the purity of the environment. The freight train roaring by 50 yards away, the falling rocks loosened by the quarrying off left, and scientists slamming the door of the cosmic Ray station prevented him from hearing my expert points, but once we drove down to Gold Bar where it was quieter, he understood what I meant.


So who wants to join me in this discussion? I'd like to talk about which routes we should chop first and also explain my reasoning for the bolts I placed on other routes (think: sick difficulty/death fall! Whoa!!). I have some photos of my friend soloing some routes, which should lend even more weight to my already unassailable arguments.



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