Sport vs Trad

[RuMR]

Kimmo, I don't think that kind of climbing is dead, its just not spewed about on the internet. There's a lot of wild adventure climbing first ascents out there in the world still, its just not in the old familiar places. Hell, look at John Frieh's FA on Burkett Needle, does 5.7 get any more out there than that? Even in the cragging world, I bet there are still lots of places to go to have an unscripted adventure on whatever you want, and you don't even have to go far afield, I wager you can find it in the Castle Crags of Northern California or Hells Canyon on the Idaho/Oregon border. Eastern Washington is full of secrets so closely held they might as well be new discoveries for whoever finds them.

 

The issue is not that that sort of climbing is dead, its that an individual's willingness to toss all to the winds and pursue it has passed.

also take a look at Jens' free ascent of dragons of eden...that guy is living his passion...

[olyclimber]

 

[qoute]

If you have half a brain, you consider the consequences before "hitting it".

If you're a caveman, you see the closely-spaced bolts, you consider their convenience at the expense of the finite rock environment and you whip out your quick-draws and "go for it".

If you're contemplative, you walk away or top-rope the route in protest, or you look for the clean route nearby rather than taking the cheap way out.

 

"finite rock"? what about mars? you're not really that much of a thinking man are you? you've already done all the thinking you're going to do...only thing left to do for you is convert everyone to your mindset. do you ever wonder how effective you are as an advocate for your "position"? and how do you toprope a woman with fake breasts?

 

 

 

 

[kevbone]

also take a look at Jens' free ascent of dragons of eden...that guy is living his passion...

 

I freed a 5.6 the other day....am I not "living my passion"?

[StevenSeagal]

 

 

If you have half a brain, you consider the consequences before "hitting it".

If you're a caveman, you see the closely-spaced bolts, you consider their convenience at the expense of the finite rock environment and you whip out your quick-draws and "go for it".

If you're contemplative, you walk away or top-rope the route in protest, or you look for the clean route nearby rather than taking the cheap way out.

 

 

And if you're a tomb raider, you blow up the whole cliff in search of mummies, and booty the scattered fragments of ancient bolt 'artifacts' as a consolation prize in case Al Capone's vault is empty!*

 

 

 

 

*JUST KIDDING DUDE

 

 

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

also take a look at Jens' free ascent of dragons of eden...that guy is living his passion...

 

I freed a 5.6 the other day....am I not "living my passion"?

 

Passion begins at 5.12b, kev.

[olyclimber]

passion is inversely related to the spacing of the bolts

[Kimmo]

If you're contemplative, you top-rope the route in protest

 

 

were you in the black panthers in the '60's?

 

 

i would suggest though that the next time your kin attempt to start getting all desecratory on some pristine grave somewhere, that you pop in indiana jones and the raiders of the lost ark in protest. yes, that is what you should do.

[kevbone]

also take a look at Jens' free ascent of dragons of eden...that guy is living his passion...

 

I freed a 5.6 the other day....am I not "living my passion"?

 

Passion begins at 5.12b, kev.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

[qoute]

If you have half a brain, you consider the consequences before "hitting it".

If you're a caveman, you see the closely-spaced bolts, you consider their convenience at the expense of the finite rock environment and you whip out your quick-draws and "go for it".

If you're contemplative, you walk away or top-rope the route in protest, or you look for the clean route nearby rather than taking the cheap way out.

 

And all this time I've been thinking the planet was made of the stuff.

 

Cavemen rule. Modern whimps who have the luxury of pontificating about the minutae of a yuppy sport from the pampered comfort of their well marbled asses suck balls.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

 

[John Frieh]

 

i submit this as mascot of this thread

 

I guess you neither read the "murder of the impossible" essay and/or have no respect for one of the most progressive climbers of our day.

 

Page 5 of this thread

[RuMR]

also take a look at Jens' free ascent of dragons of eden...that guy is living his passion...

 

I freed a 5.6 the other day....am I not "living my passion"?

fuck you kevin...

 

the guy is literally eating, living, breathing climbing...only climbing, nothing else...

[AlpineK]

All cragging should be outlawed.

 

Face it real climbing involves a summit. Why bother to climb if you're not summiting a geographic feature with prominence.

 

Furthermore the true hardcore don't rely on man made trails. They brushwack to the base of every climb.

 

Trails = Via Ferrata

[Raindawg]

i would suggest though that the next time your kin attempt to start getting all desecratory on some pristine grave somewhere, that you pop in indiana jones and the raiders of the lost ark in protest. yes, that is what you should do.

 

You sound as ignorant as Choada_Boy. Maybe you are Choada_Boy.

So...what do YOU do for a living that we can bring up in this topic and ridicule?

Nothing very interesting, I imagine.

 

[Kimmo]

You sound as ignorant as Choada_Boy. Maybe you are Choada_Boy.

So...what do YOU do for a living that we can bring up in this topic and ridicule?

Nothing very interesting, I imagine.

 

i don't know this choada boy fellow; what are the marks of his ignorance?

 

 

i must publicly declare that what i do for a living has nothing to do with desecrating graves. whether or not this makes what i do for a living interesting? oi vei, i don't know. i imagine grave robbing could be a pretty darn good time!

[JosephH]

Kimmo, I don't think that kind of climbing is dead, its just not spewed about on the internet. There's a lot of wild adventure climbing first ascents out there in the world still, its just not in the old familiar places. Hell, look at John Frieh's FA on Burkett Needle, does 5.7 get any more out there than that? Even in the cragging world, I bet there are still lots of places to go to have an unscripted adventure on whatever you want, and you don't even have to go far afield, I wager you can find it in the Castle Crags of Northern California or Hells Canyon on the Idaho/Oregon border. Eastern Washington is full of secrets so closely held they might as well be new discoveries for whoever finds them. So yeah, it's not dead, you just have to drive an extended distance from most major cities to find it anymore.

 

The issue is not that that sort of climbing is dead, its that an individual's willingness to toss all to the winds and pursue it has passed.

also take a look at Jens' free ascent of dragons of eden...that guy is living his passion...

 

Kimmo, it's not dead, but has been pursued and valued by an progressively smaller and smaller percentage of the total climbing demographic over the past 20 years. During that same period the rock around major metropolitan centers has been bolted in ever an increasing radius. In Oregon that trend has basically been to infill [bolt] crags up the Gorge between Mt. Hood and PDX and of late between Mt. Hood and Smith. Beacon and Trout Creek are the standout exceptions to that infilling trend.

 

The essence of the entire discussion is well-summed up by the very exisitence and use of the term 'adventure climbing'. There was a time not all that long ago (hell, even Off can remember it) when trad climbing was 'climbing' and didn't need to be qualified by a prefix and all climbing was an 'adventure'. But real climbing has now been relegated to the shadows where it can be ignored or referenced as an peculiar exception (that only guys like John Frieh do). Why? So the culture of the majority (sport climbers) could co-op the very term 'climbing' and drop the prefix 'sport'. In the end words and semantics really do tell the real story of decline. But if the real story were present in our vernacular than the climbing done by the overwhelming majority of today's climbers would be called 'entertainment climbing'.

[RuMR]

hey joseph...have you climbed in the european limestone venues??? If so, what are your impressions/experiences???

[Pete_H]

 

The essence of the entire discussion is well-summed up by the very exisitence and use of the term 'adventure climbing'.

 

Adventure climbing is when you get dirt in your climbing shoes.

[Kimmo]

So...what do YOU do for a living that we can bring up in this topic and ridicule?

 

i must add that in no way was i ridiculing what you do for a living. hell, i'm not even sure that you actually rob graves; i'm just going by what others have said!

 

and what do i do for a living? take care of a new baby and bolt new sport climbs!

[catbirdseat]

 

The essence of the entire discussion is well-summed up by the very exisitence and use of the term 'adventure climbing'.

 

Adventure climbing is when you get dirt in your climbing shoes.

Adventure climbing is where success is never assured, because the number of variables is large and many those cannot be controlled. It means you don't know what will happen when you set out. You might have a cruise. You might have an epic. But when you reach the summit or the top of the route, the feeling is so much sweeter.

[olyclimber]

its like a box of chocolates

[Kimmo]

Adventure climbing is where success is never assured

 

vs sport climbing, where success is always assured. heh, i'll remember that next time i tie in on project. i'll be sure to get it!

[Kimmo]

Oh, and Kimmo, I'd tie in with you any day, love your balance, maybe we need to take off up on that offer:-).

 

 

yeayea, i've been meaning to check out his crag. wednesdays are the days, it seems.

[Kimmo]

 

so ummmm this pic: where izzit? public info or keepin it lowlow? looks maybe really good?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i would suggest though that the next time your kin attempt to start getting all desecratory on some pristine grave somewhere, that you pop in indiana jones and the raiders of the lost ark in protest. yes, that is what you should do.

 

You sound as ignorant as Choada_Boy. Maybe you are Choada_Boy.

So...what do YOU do for a living that we can bring up in this topic and ridicule?

Nothing very interesting, I imagine.

 

Actually, let's get this back on track.

 

There is nothing wrong with your profession, Dawg, and nothing to mock about it.

 

What there is to mock is the fact that you dedicate your life to study an ancient people who RAPED the rock while SIMULATEOUSLY engaging in this anti-bolting crusade. Explain just how it is that these ancient peoples are worthy of dedicating your life energy and are seen by you as a positive influence (right?), while anyone who places a bolt is anathema to you? Surely the damage caused to the rock in say, the Valley of the Kings, or the quarries mined to get blocks for the ancient pyramids far exceeds the combined world-wide damage caused by bolts.

 

 

[kevbone]

Poop I tell you......POOP!