hafilax Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 I simply think that you are overstating the potential dangers that kid was in. It seems to me that the most probable worst case scenario happened and that the girl showed great courage and determination in finishing the climb. It may not have been the best situation but I think it was a positive experience in the end for parent and child. I hope it did something for her self confidence but that it is followed up with a lesson on safety in climbing. This isn't aimed at anybody but I think that many parents take the role of protector too far and fail to teach their kids that the world isn't scary, that kids can be capable of making their own decisions and that they must take responsibility for their own actions. Quote
RuMR Posted June 20, 2009 Author Posted June 20, 2009 you may be right...i disagree that what happened is the worst case scenario, but we obviously see things differently... there is a difference between being petrified and being protected...its a gray area though... Quote
hafilax Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 Most probable worst case scenario. She could have flipped upside down and cracked her head open but then again she could have been hit by a meteorite. I guess that's a bad example since a helmet would help in both cases. Quote
j_b Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 This isn't aimed at anybody but I think that many parents take the role of protector too far and fail to teach their kids that the world isn't scary, that kids can be capable of making their own decisions and that they must take responsibility for their own actions. The "world", including climbing is unfortunately scary, and I made sure that my kids knwow it too. People who aren't scared of climbing while they are learning probably shouldn't be climbing or at least be on a very short leash until they gain the experience to assess danger. Quote
StevenSeagal Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 HAI! Would anyone like some fresh pastries?!?!?!!???? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 This isn't aimed at anybody but I think that many parents take the role of protector too far and fail to teach their kids that the world isn't scary, that kids can be capable of making their own decisions and that they must take responsibility for their own actions. The "world", including climbing is unfortunately scary, and I made sure that my kids knwow it too. People who aren't scared of climbing while they are learning probably shouldn't be climbing or at least be on a very short leash until they gain the experience to assess danger. I think the word "SHOULD" should be abolished. Quote
ivan Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 If my kids get interested in this nonsense, I'll teach them how to proceed safely. What I'd worry more about is whether they'd be able to find climbing partners who meet my standards for safety. And even then, I find rock climbers generally aren't the kind of people I'd want around my kids. Too little regard for ethical and environmental considerations, too much weed, very poorly developed sense of responsibility and commitment. man - the truth hurts! mostly i ain't letting my kids become climbers b/c i'd have to deal w/a world of shit from the wife over it, plus it completly freaks me out to see my kids on the verge of death Quote
marc_leclerc Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 How many of you wore helmets on your first leads? I was 10 on my first lead and I wasnt wearing a helmet!!! OMG!!! Quote
matt_warfield Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 All I want to say is that, though occasionally abrasive, Rumr is a very accomplished climber with great judgment in the field and his kid can probably outlcimb 80% of the posters here, with or without a helmet. Quote
hafilax Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 All I want to say is that, though occasionally abrasive, Rumr is a very accomplished climber with great judgment in the field and his kid can probably outlcimb 80% of the posters here, with or without a helmet. What does that have to do with anything? Quote
Rad Posted June 20, 2009 Posted June 20, 2009 All I want to say is that, though occasionally abrasive, Rumr is a very accomplished climber with great judgment in the field and his kid can probably outlcimb 80% of the posters here, with or without a helmet. What does that have to do with anything? It grants him the moral authority to tell anyone what to do and how to do it. "Hey Halibut, fetch me another beer wench!" or maybe that's, "Hey Halibut, fetch me another beer, wench!" Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 All I want to say is that, though occasionally abrasive, Rumr is a very accomplished climber with great judgment in the field and his kid can probably outlcimb 80% of the posters here, with or without a helmet. What does that have to do with anything? It grants him the moral authority to tell anyone what to do and how to do it. "Hey Halibut, fetch me another beer wench!" or maybe that's, "Hey Halibut, fetch me another beer, wench!" a moral authority weighted by the moral ballast of his favorite forum. In any other usniverse, he would simply be another chat room tool. Quote
EWolfe Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I am probably one of the few people that knows Jason (the author of the link RuMR posted). In summation, you bitches don't know shit. Quote
StevenSeagal Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I am probably one of the few people that knows Jason (the author of the link RuMR posted). How come 'Jason' knows so few people? Are you his only friend? Quote
pope Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 How many of you wore helmets on your first leads? I was 10 on my first lead and I wasnt wearing a helmet!!! OMG!!! When you're a young adult and you feel comfortable placing yourself in harm's way (or you're just too stupid to know when you're doing it), that's your decision. If you get injured or chopped, only you are to blame for the aftermath (medical bills, somebody feeding you applesauce and changing your diaper, and/or the sorrow experienced by those who were close). When you're a parent and you place your child in harm's way, you aren't doing your job. Having said that, climbing can teach us to appreciate things many people overlook, and it can teach us the importance of concentrating when surrounded by danger. Climbing can teach us the value of developing routines for safety. Climbing taught me these lessons and gave me a confidence I was lacking, and I do wish for my children to experience similar development. I think there are other avenues to gaining the same knowledge, where the price for human error is less severe. I survived some of my near mishaps purely through dumb luck, and I realize things could have gone the other way. That's why I'm not encouraging my kids to climb. Quote
PhöQ Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 ...too much weed I agree, there is a time and a place. Quote
RuMR Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) How many of you wore helmets on your first leads? I was 10 on my first lead and I wasnt wearing a helmet!!! OMG!!! When you're a young adult and you feel comfortable placing yourself in harm's way (or you're just too stupid to know when you're doing it), that's your decision. If you get injured or chopped, only you are to blame for the aftermath (medical bills, somebody feeding you applesauce and changing your diaper, and/or the sorrow experienced by those who were close). When you're a parent and you place your child in harm's way, you aren't doing your job. Having said that, climbing can teach us to appreciate things many people overlook, and it can teach us the importance of concentrating when surrounded by danger. Climbing can teach us the value of developing routines for safety. Climbing taught me these lessons and gave me a confidence I was lacking, and I do wish for my children to experience similar development. I think there are other avenues to gaining the same knowledge, where the price for human error is less severe. I survived some of my near mishaps purely through dumb luck, and I realize things could have gone the other way. That's why I'm not encouraging my kids to climb. Edited June 22, 2009 by RuMR Quote
hafilax Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 If climbing were that dangerous there wouldn't be climbing gyms. You guys make is sound like every time you touch rock you're staring death in the face. Quote
RuMR Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 halifax, do you have kids? do they ski or ride a bike? if so, do you make them wear a helmet? that is all...its common sense... my life would pretty much be over if i were to cause irreparable harm/death to one of my children... Quote
rob Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I always make my kids wear helmets on their bike. That's why I hunt out people on the internet who don't, so I can make sure everyone knows how much better I am than they are. Quote
hafilax Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 halifax, do you have kids? do they ski or ride a bike? if so, do you make them wear a helmet? that is all...its common sense... my life would pretty much be over if i were to cause irreparable harm/death to one of my children... Does your kid wear a helmet in the gym? Quote
Kimmo Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 head injuries seem to be more prevalent in down-hill snow sports than in sport climbing or bouldering, yet i don't know of any resort that enforces a helmet policy; am i mistaken here? if head injuries were prevalent, i would assume that liability issues would force the adoption of helmet policies across the board. having climbed for quite a few years, i know of very few (one?) head injuries, and only from alpine trad climbing. i don't recall a single head injury from sport climbing or bouldering. if one wishes to wear a helmet, that's awesome, but to denigrate others for not following suit seems a bit over-reaching. if someone has relevant stats on this subject, i'd love to see them.... it could be that wearing a helmet while driving a car to the crag would be more in order, statistically speaking, but if this is not the case, please inform me.... and, after having recently been graced with the birth of a baby daughter, this subject will probably be even more relevant to me in the near future (right now i'm so paranoid that i barely can handle her being taken to the crag, for fear of a quick draw being dropped on her head!). Quote
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