Discipline is love......

[ericb]

kevbone - just how much experience do you have parenting? don't take this the wrong way, but dealing w/a 4yr old is different than dealing w/a 1 year old is different than dealing w/a 10yr old.

 

 

Not as much as you......that does not change the fact that I will NEVER lay a hand my children.

 

KB....why doesn't it surprise me that you can't grasp the concept of discipline without corporal punishment?

 

 

 

[builder206]

Becasue he already said his own parents used to strike him?

[billcoe]

..that does not change the fact that I will NEVER lay a hand my children.

 

Never say never. I grasp your feelings but my thoughts, best save that arrow in the quiver for when you really really need it.

[AlpineK]

If I might continue to quote from the album Discipline

 

Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end

[kevbone]

 

KB....why doesn't it surprise me that you can't grasp the concept of discipline without corporal punishment?

 

 

 

 

I can grasp the concept. Like said early….IMO the word discipline has a negative connation to it. There are all sorts of forms of discipline out there.

 

Bill……I will never strike my children. Ever! This I am certain of.

 

[G-spotter]

Discipline can be fun

[RuMR]

"hey batman, where's my dinner and remote?"

[kevbone]

"hey batman, where's my dinner and remote?"

 

 

jeez......get the quote right.....

 

 

"hey batman, whats for dinner"

[RuMR]

not in my house...

[rob]

My parents never beat me. They didn't have to; my older brother pretty much had that covered.

[Stefan]

good article.

 

kevbone, what would be the symantex you would use if you were caught doing something against the company rules at work, but you were not fired? what actions would they take?

[denalidave]

.....30 years later I still resent my father.....

 

 

.....

Reckon I could have some of dem french fried pa-tat-ters a-for I whack U in da head with dis here sling blade...

[Off_White]

Discipline can be fun

 

It takes a lot of colors to make a rainbow, but I'm just not wired that way.

 

The goal with children is that they learn self-discipline. I've done alright without spanking for 25 years of parenthood, but maybe I'm just lucky. My kids have definitely learned to advocate for their position: I don't tend to be autocratic and I'm open to debate, so they opt for reason rather than blind obedience. That's what happens when you raise your children to think their opinion matters.

[archenemy]

I am neither for or against spanking. I don't have to be because I am not a parent. But what I am against is the crazy extremes our society seems to go to. I have heard stories about people calling in other parents for swatting their temper-tantruming kid on the butt. Child services will come take away that kid and "protect" it in the foster system until things get straightened out. Now that is crazy. And assuming that one child-raising experience is the same as another or that raising a bunch of kids makes anyone an expert is laughable in my humble, ignorant opinion.

[Off_White]

I have heard stories about people calling in other parents for swatting their temper-tantruming kid on the butt. Child services will come take away that kid and "protect" it in the foster system until things get straightened out.

 

Oh really? Source on this? Know anyone that it's happened to? Credible news reports? Folks I know working in parts of that system have far more serious abuses to deal with than kids swatted on the butt. "CPS took my kid because I spanked him in the grocery store" is one of those things that smack of urban myth and cover story, like Reagan's much vaunted Welfare Queen with a stable of Cadillacs, which was also a total fabrication.

[kevbone]

 

Folks I know working in parts of that system have far more serious abuses to deal with than kids swatted on the butt. "CPS took my kid because I spanked him in the grocery store" is one of those things that smack of urban myth and cover story, like Reagan's much vaunted Welfare Queen with a stable of Cadillacs, which was also a total fabrication.

 

 

It is for real Off……part of my wife’s law practice is defending parents who have had there children taken away from the state for this and that reason. You would be appalled at why! Or more to the point for “how long” the state has control.

 

Look what is happening in Texas. Over 400 kids have been taken away from there families just because of a prank call.

 

[olyclimber]

yeah. thats it. it was just a prank call. thats the reason.

[fishburneiv]

Look what is happening in Texas. Over 400 kids have been taken away from there families just because of a prank call.

 

From Foxnews: "Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (YFZ) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.

 

McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to bear children. A spiritual marriage is one recognized by the FLDS church, but lacking a state marriage license. Texas law prohibits polygamy and the marriage of girls under 16."

 

Kev,

 

I don't get it, first you denounce the physical abuse of children and then you minimize the sexual exploitation of underage girls? How so?

 

 

 

[kevbone]

Look what is happening in Texas. Over 400 kids have been taken away from there families just because of a prank call.

 

From Foxnews: "Investigators determined that there is a widespread pattern and practice of the (YFZ) Ranch in which young, minor female residents are conditioned to expect and accept sexual activity with adult men at the ranch upon being spiritually married to them," read the affidavit signed by Lynn McFadden, a Department of Family and Protective Services investigative supervisor.

 

McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to bear children. A spiritual marriage is one recognized by the FLDS church, but lacking a state marriage license. Texas law prohibits polygamy and the marriage of girls under 16."

 

Kev,

 

I don't get it, first you denounce the physical abuse of children and then you minimize the sexual exploitation of underage girls? How so?

 

 

 

The state came in and rounded up almost 400 children. Even 2 year old got taken away from there parents. That is wrong in my book.

 

McFadden said the girls were spiritually married to the men as soon as they reached puberty and were required to bear children. A spiritual marriage is one recognized by the FLDS church, but lacking a state marriage license. Texas law prohibits polygamy and the marriage of girls under 16

 

This is clearly a problem, and I do not have the answers. Mostly the problem lies with be a Mormon in the first place……

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[underworld]

FLDS is not mormon. the mormons excommunicate polygamists!

 

people are soooo carefull not to categorize all muslims as radical terrorists, but so easily group FLDS with LDS.

 

 

[JayB]

I have heard stories about people calling in other parents for swatting their temper-tantruming kid on the butt. Child services will come take away that kid and "protect" it in the foster system until things get straightened out.

 

Oh really? Source on this? Know anyone that it's happened to? Credible news reports? Folks I know working in parts of that system have far more serious abuses to deal with than kids swatted on the butt. "CPS took my kid because I spanked him in the grocery store" is one of those things that smack of urban myth and cover story, like Reagan's much vaunted Welfare Queen with a stable of Cadillacs, which was also a total fabrication.

 

My sense is that at least some the stories of travesties against common sense perpetrated by overzealous bureaucrats are real - see below:

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080428/COL04/804280375

 

I also think that while they're important, I think that the reality is that on average kids are much, much more likely to suffer because overburdened child-protective systems and many, many other factors keep them stuck in grossly abusive situations, sometimes until it's too late. I think that sensational cases of un-checked abuse and/or incompetence by CPS also make the news - but if you are a kid in an abusive home, neither an excess of interest and intervention in your life by state social workers, nor is a surfeit of media attention to your plight likely to top the list of problems that you're dealing with.

 

These stories seem to be pretty similar to "Man arrested for burning flag" stories. Doesn't happen very often, not representative, and not indicative of the more substantial threats that might confine freedom of expression - but a glaring enough contravention of individual rights to warrant attention, and something that people who care about these things will follow closely to see that this particular grievance is remedied, and that the system is reformed enough to prevent something like it from happening again.

 

On a sort-of related topic, I agree with your belief that the ultimate object of any discipline that's introduced into parenting should be to cultivate a sense of self-discipline in-them.

 

From what I've seen - there seems to be a pretty wide spectrum of approaches that work for that purpose, and no set formulas that will work for all kids in all situations. Once you veer off into the extremely permissive, or extremely authoritarian zones - you dramatically increase the odds of your child-rearing experiment ending in unmitigated disaster. From what I've seen, extremely permissive parents seem to reap the whirlwind while their kids are still in the house, and authoritarian parents are more likely to watch their kids self-destruct soon after they leave the house. Then there's the nice, capable parents that raise two or three nice kids - and somehow wind up with a monster on their hands that introduces decades of misery into their lives. Scary stuff.

 

 

[kevbone]

FLDS is not mormon. the mormons excommunicate polygamists!

 

 

 

I disagree….that are all in the same “crazy” category.