ScaredSilly

Marwa ice screws make great wine cork removers. Here is a not so old but unique piece of gear:

Nat Geo Adventurer of the Year Nominee. Give me a break Potter is nothing but a fuck tard (a nice guy but of low moral character after his antics on Delicate Arch). How the fuck is walking a slack line or jumping in a squirrel suit adventure? I thought adventure had to do with exploring the unknown.

Thanks for link. The music was great for the 50s added nice drama. I have seen many of Alf Gregory's photos but never much of the filming. Good stuff

Not to dissuade you, but remember access to that side of the hill is not always possible until very late in May. And then you are looking at M-Day weekend which is the typical big weekend crowd. Having come down the Emmons 4 times now I have to say I will never go up it unless it is an emergency. IMHO, the route is plod. Which is why I think people like the DC at least the upper part of the hill has a bit of variety. I think there are much better routes on the hill; Kautz, Furhe Finger, Gib Ledges (those I have been on of similar difficultly), others have mentioned the Tacoma though I have not been on it would have more variety than the Emmons.

This website might help folks: http://www.fastfindplb.com/en/index.php http://www.mcmurdo.co.uk/doc/Fast Find V2 low res.pdf A few answers to some questions: You want to replace the battery near the end of it life as it has a shelf life. I believe the even the replacement battery has a shelf life. The unit once activated transmits for at least 24hrs (i.e. in the worst conditions cold). It should last around 72 hours if in warmer temps. As for the GPS, it is not a stand alone - there is no screen to view the coordinates. There are other units that allow you to utilize a std GPS and upload the coordinates into the PLB. As for testing - no more than once a month over the 60 month life of the battery.

Preaching to choir aint going to help in the long run. If you want to make a difference try and educate these morons. There is getting to be more morons and these morons are the ones calling for mandates. So sorry, it is your job and well as everyone else's. I look at it this way. I can use all of those analog and digital gizmos if needed. They are all tools and each have their place and limitations. None should be substitute for one or the other.

Nicely written!! and along the lines of what I wanted to say just did not have the frame of mind to write it as eloquently.

Delayed rescue calls - I have heard this statement many times but have yet to see any documentation to support it. More danger for rescuers - the coast guard requires ocean going vessels to carry locators, as does the FAA for aircraft. I have not ever heard that there is an expectation of rescue from pilots that I know. Further, groups like PMR are volunteers, they are not being forced to do anything. About the only statement of three that I agree with to a certain degree is the false sense of security it may provide. But I am cold hearted bastard, I do not feel sorry for people like that. Kind of like the idiot skiers who go out with an avy beacon thinking that it will save them. I agree with the basic premise that mandating anything is a bad idea. Especially when it targets one user group.

The cartoon is quite interesting ... while I agree it is a poke in the eye at PMR I think to a certain degree they set themselves up for it. Though I agree the MLU should not be mandated, their arguments are specious: http://www.pmru.org/pressroom/headlines/20091213PMRStatementRegardingMissions.html However, at the same time the third frame says a lot. I have say the first time I read that frame it did not click. The second time it did. What do I walk away with? Common sense says you hedge your bets for survival. At the same time common sense says you do not mandate what tools are used.

Thanks, I did not even think about that viewpoint. It is absolutely not my intention to take advantage of the situation as this idea is something I have been thinking about for a while (not just for climbing and land based adventures but also ocean ventures) and with Bill's post about Spot (and missing his window) I thought I would ask. That said if folks find my idea inappropriate I give the mods full purview to nuke this thread.

Accidents on big hills tend to involve aircraft which tend to draw the media in. Hood and Rainier are also next to large populations. Further climbers are seen as thrill seekers while BillyBob who get lost picking mushrooms is just some poor sap. Oddly enough the one some what major rescue that I was involved in on Denali in the early 90s drew media interest a week afterwards. This rescue was one of the easiest rescues done that year, there was no search, no bad weather, no deaths, just my partner who was lost a fight with a collapsing serac and a crevasse. In fact, I think the total time from the accident happening to landing at Anchorage Hospital was less than 8 hours. But like most rescues on Denali it involved a helicopter. In this case a short haul - wee flying under the bird is way more fun than inside but I digress. Anywho a week later a paper was calling for an interview. I had little to say as I was embarrassed about having to make the call - but I had no choice.

Okay with all this talk about MLUs / Spots / PLBs / etc I thought I would throw out an idea. I have a lead with a retailer who is willing to work out a deal for the purchase of a bunch of the McMurdo Find Find 210 PLBs at a reduced price. I am not sure what the price point would be at this time other than it would need to beat REI's price of $270 (after dividend) and we would need to buying enough to make it worth their while. For me personally, I will say the price needs to be below $250 because of shipping costs. (Saving less than $20 over REI's price is not worth the time factor involved in the distribution). If folks are interested, please post up your interest and how many you might want. These postings will give me a number to go the retailer with so that they can give a price plus shipping each unit. Your posting is not a commitment but do not post unless you are truly willing to buy. I do not want the retailer basing the price a bunch of units and then only have a few people actually follow through. Once we have a price I would collect funds from each person (paid in full via a check, no paypal because of their fees and monthly withdrawal limits). Your full payment is your commitment. I would then place the order. When they arrive I would have a mailing party (to make things easy sending a shipping label with payment helps). Everyone who wants one then has a PLB and can tell the man to take hike ;-). Okay, so post up if you are interested. allen

Some random thoughts, A-Fox I do not agree with PMR statement on charging for rescues. I favor the Euro system. It would level the playing field - everyone pays and you carry insurance for it. And though there is law on the books it is rarely if ever been used - especially if there is a death that was for really stupid reasons. I agree that beacons should not be mandated as it is knee jerk reaction to climbing being dangerous (like atving is not). The risk homeostasis is a valid point as that has been seen with avy beacons. The MLU beacons are no longer the right technology anyways. EPLB are the better technology (but still not perfect). EPLB are now down around $300. Here is a thought, it used to be that stores would sell avy beacons basically at cost so that people would get them and use them because they were affective. I wonder if that could happen with EPLB. When I first bought my avy beacon I bought one for myself but it did little good as my girlfriend did not have one. Then I did a group buy on about 5 of them so that I could get a second one and my friends could also get one at a reduced price. EPLB are kinda like avy beacons to be most useful everyone should have one. The current accident on Hood and the one three years ago are good examples - this is not meant to be any disrespect to either the group as I find no fault. Both involved falls/injuries of some sort with initial survival of either part or all of the group. In both cases, one EPLB could have been activated. However, both groups became separated - a second signal would be helpful if it could be activated. The other reason I believe multiple would be prudent besides separation is that the batteries are good for 24-48. As we all know weather can prevent any rescue from happening. However, ponying up for multiple units is expensive ... As said, currently there is no on-star technology. Spot is interesting but I am not sure it is truly there. So short of carrying a sat phone what are else are going to do to call home??

I wonder how much of the MLU resistance is related to climbers being singled out as a user group? As has been said why not require others who cost more in terms of rescue $$ and time to have transmitters. The simple reason - climbing compared to hunting/hiking is seen a high risk activity but ATVing is not???. As always not always the most logical. I say this with no disrespect - but an MLU would not have saved Luke Gullberg, I am not sure even a cell phone call would have been possible. About the only thing that would have possibly helped would have been an ELB (which I believe he could have activated). But would each person in their group have one? Personally, I am in favor of the euro system - everyone gets charged for rescues just like everyone get charged for an ambulance ride. In my book it is called personal responsibility. (BTW I do have it through several sources, my only gripe is that they have to arrange any services). BTW In the early days of avy beacons when they were relatively expensive, it used to be that shops would have a minimal mark up on them. Just enough to cover their costs. Why so people would not use the excuse that they were too expensive to own one. I wonder if they same could be done with plbs today?

KOIN has new poll ... If Oregon adopted a law mandating Mountain Locator Units for climbers, what else should it contain? Training requirement for summit attempts Search & rescue reimbursement when MLU is not used State authority to close mountain to climbing, based on forecasts All of the above

What the lay public does not understand is that in this case the MLU would not have helped unless 1) it had been activated 2) all three people carried them 3) searchers would have been on the spot Friday afternoon. RJ - PBL have come down in cost $300 gets ya one: http://www.rei.com/product/791972

I find it interesting that TWO stations are running poles. Folks start calling the news directors voicing your disgust. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/927232 Right side 3/4 the way down the page: http://www.katu.com/

I was in the 11% voting. Do not forget to send in some comments to viewersvoice@katu.com This was my comment: I will carry a beacon as soon as all the other screw balls like mushroom pickers, hunters, boaters, skiers, bikers, and the rest of the other knuckleheads who cost more money to "rescue" than climbers.

I have a nearly new Eldo Ground Cloth (used twice as I remember). I sold the tent a while back but found the ground cloth the other day. These go new for $40 or so. I'd sell it for $22.50 cash/check including shipping CONUS.

7-MERGE-926832-MERGE- merged with related thread

Not good news: http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20091212/71c6311d-ff08-4dfd-b24d-0d7b5a27cd1f http://www.kptv.com/news/21949650/detail.html

Wow sad news. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/breakingnews/79012497.html

Bill, a friend used a spot on Denali and I was with him when we did a run up Rainier. IMHO the spot is fine for checking in so to speak but to be honest if I am up a river of excrement in a native american vessel without any means of propulsion I want a PLB The new McMurdo is my choice: http://www.rei.com/product/791972 BTW remember the fine print on the SPOT- Service Fee: $99.99 USD annual. Optional features include automatic tracking service (SPOTcasting) and guaranteed extraction service for countries or regions with non-responsive emergency services. Hmm, the wife asked me what I wanted for xmas ... might have to suggest this unit. PS I ran into Aaron Ralston last month down in the Utah desert.

I saw the followups on smithrock.com that it was some climber's kids drawings but is that now the official conclusion and more importantly is the closure lifted.

Bump ... can anyone give an update??