ScaredSilly

Kevin, I think the climbing community understands the effectiveness of a PLB. But PLBs are just one tool in the quiver that will help one survive. Like any tool it can be misused and overly relied on. Just like the knuckleheads who blindly relied on their GPS and drove down a snow covered road only to get stuck. I think perhaps what you are seeing is that as climbers we do not want to be told what to take on a climb. The NPS used to do that 30-40 years ago. Further, climbers do not want to be singled out as the only user group to be legislated. Especially given that the resources being used are not in proportion to those of other user groups. As such, there will be lots comments some true, some false. Kinda of like the health care debate. I can understand your frustration but do not leave the table.

This auction would be a great way to support the cause: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190365539998

Monty, while I respect the work your organization does, the above statement in regards to the accident on Mt. Hood in December is utter BS. I realize my statement is harsh and I know I was not there when Mr Gullberg was found. But how can you or PMR make such a statement? His companions were not found and to my knowledge there was zero trace of them. As such, they could have has all the survival gear in the world from a stove, to sleeping, to a PLB. None which would have done them a damn bit good if they were laying unconscious in the bowels of crevasse. More than one climber has died from exposure not because they lacked the resources but because they could not functionally use them. With no disrespect to Mr Gullberg but from what information I gathered his gear was spread out over the mountain after the accident. Rather hard to retrieve it when you are injured. ( i have dealt with such a partner after a serac avalanche that swept him into a crevasse and almost led to him to being buried alive). Ringy - dingy is the term I want to say. Now I noticed in your second post which is similar you do not make the above statement. If PMR is to have any credibility with in first the climbing community and the lay public PLEASE, PLEASE think very carefully about your statements in the public. I was not impressed in the least bit with the PMR statement and reasoning regarding locator beacons last month. I really want to see organizations such PMR be on front lines and give my support but at the present time I am just not reading statements that allow me to give such support. The stakes are very high for climbers in the PNW right now. Sincerely, Allen Sanderson

Kevin, thanks for braving the waters and posting up. A few comments. Given the way legislation works these days with all the special interests most people are very skeptical anytime a business and an elected official propose legislation where a specific business will gain from it. For quite sometime, the general public has perceived winter time climbing above timberline to be an unreasonable risk. And the accidents that do occur are costing the states large sums of money. This is a myth, has been debunked several times by the state of Oregon and by organizations such the AAC which did a study on this subject. (Sorry, I do not have the links handy). On the cost scale climbers are a ways down on the list. As such, the climbing community is rightly upset that they are being singled out when they are not the problem. I disagree that education can not be successful without legislation. One only has to look at laws regarding motorcycles and helmets or cars and seat belts. Many states still do not have laws regarding wearing helmets or seat belts. Yet many many years of education has made people realize that wearing a helmut or seat belt is smart. Further, when laws are passed it affects everybody who rides a motorcycle or drives a car no just a select few. Carrying a PLB is just one tool that people have available when they find themselves up a river of excrement in a native american vessel without any means of propulsion. Just like a driver does for winter driving (some carry chains, some rely on 4x4, some use studded tires). All are a good idea by themselves and some times all are needed. Further when some form of additional traction is required, everybody is required. Though using them, like a PLB, GPS, Sat Phone, does not guarantee you will not crash. If your goal is to get factual information out there please do not speculate on the incident on Mt. Hood this past December. While you may feel that not taking a PLB could well have cost the climbers their lives. I feel the opposite. Without speculating too much and for sake of argument say all three climbers did have a PLB, it is hard to activate a PLB if you have fallen and are unconscious, further if during the fall you have lost your pack which has dumped it contents it will be hard to activate a PLB that is lost. Finally, I complement you on willing to work with the community. However, forcing the usage of PLB on a small user group is not the answer. Sincerely, Allen Sanderson

A friend pointed me to this link on Lou Dawson's site: http://www.wildsnow.com/2323/plb-rescue-beacon-acr While I think PLB and their like have a place, they should not be mandated except in a few cases (maritime & aviation). What dismayed me about the write up was the number of false callouts and the lack of registration. I find it very sad.

More fun quotes by Kevin Stoltz: http://www.plbrental.com/articles/PR070924.asp Why wouldn’t a person hiking solo carry a PLB? “There are a number of reasons but the biggest one is people just don’t know they exist and how easy they are to get a hold of”, says Kevin Stoltz, President of PLB Rentals, LLC. “We are continually working to improve public awareness of PLBs so people will choose to bring one along, even on day hikes. Nobody thinks they’re going to get into an emergency situation, but anyone who is out in the wilderness should carry a PLB…just in case. If you get lost, injured, or stranded in the wilderness, a PLB can save your life.” Public awareness by legislation ... legislate this fucker

This action is called special interest group. It happens all the time with crap at the political level at the local, state, and federal levels. Nothing new but it does help to use it as ammunition against the bill. Kevin Stoltz's company: http://www.plbrentals.com Interesting comment: http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/personal-locator-beacons-or-personal-body-locators/

An LED flashlight is an electronic signaling device.

I get your point and perhaps I am jaded. But people need have some intelligence when traveling in avy terrain. Yeah, we all do stupid things. Most of the time we get a way with it. Sometimes we do not - at that point we are a dumb fuck. Hopefully not a dead dumb fuck. And yes, I have been dumb fuck before.

Every winter here in Oootah, a dumb fuck motor head or two to three gets caught in a slide from their high mark antics. The best one so far was from the guy who got slammed by a slide trigger by his partner. He held strong and filmed the whole thing right up to and including when he got buried. What amazes me is that these jokers park their sleds and the bottom of the hill in the run out zone to watch. All of it is Darwinism.

Bring skis ...

He he, my letter to the Oregonian was published in this mornings paper. I wonder if will stir the pot any?

A quick bump now that the holidays are over. I should hear something this week, the shop needed to contact the distributor ... Thanks for everyone patience.

As an OSU grad I always liked the expression - Fuck a duck, eat a beaver.

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/930411/gonew/1/Lodging_around_Mt_Hood#UNREAD

I liked my last bivy - the dorm rooms (aka Chalet) at Timberline Lodge. With two people is was very reasonable. Otherwise, the Mazama Lodge is a good option.

It would appear that there are two stories. The one above for the couple from Reno and then there is this couple with a baby. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/12/29/ghassemi.lost.by.gps.katu My letter to the Oregonian, let me know if they publish it: As a former Oregonian I am shocked that my home state continues to promote and allow people to drive in the wintertime without being prepared. In the past week two different couples have become stranded on rural roads. The first couple was stranded for three days while the other couple, with a baby for only 12 hours. Where are the cries for requiring people to carry locator beacons, GPS, or cell phones? Oh wait they had a cell phone and a GPS system. Too bad they blindly followed their spiffy GPS system down an unplowed road with more than a foot of snow on it only to get stuck. And once stuck they could not get a cell signal. Maybe it is time to require winter drivers in Oregon to carry sat phones or at least PLB at all times as it would sure save on rescue costs.

The Polish Route is similar to the Emmons on Rainier. Funny, I just remembered that on our trip up the hill my partner did all the carries. I just went from camp to camp to summit. Of course he did all of one carry while I was sick. After that we just schlepped all of our crap up the hill and back down.

Yup, that is a cam nut. Cool I have never seen one other than in the Nuts Museum. Very collectable ...

I bet it is a Cam Nut, a hollowed out cam with a spring inside.

Sure post up if he was not the partner you hoped. Especially, if his action endangered or prevented the group from accomplishing your goals. Just be honest about what you personally observed, i.e. do not question or discuss what he presented as his previous experience - may be true, may be a lie but best to believe.

I am wondering if it is an old CMI Cam? Check out the museum - you will probably find it there: http://www.needlesports.com/nutsmuseum/nutsmuseum.htm BTW the above piece is an original Lowe Alpine Systems Split Cam (circa 1975).

I skied the rim one December back in '86. We took two days. There are two avy spots but as I remember one is short and the other I can not remember at all. We stayed on the road the whole time. The one thing you really want is descent weather because of wind as there is no real protection. One fun little tour I have also done is to ski out along the rim for maybe 5 miles??? to where the PCT comes in. Then drop down off the rim and follow the PCT which will then bring you back to the road. Or may be it is an access trail between the PCT and road. Hell it has been too long ago but anywho it makes for a nice little overnight tour that gives you a bit of the rim but then goes down off of it into more protected areas.

I am with Bill on this one. I was up on Hood last month. First time in years, after a rough bivy in the lodge, we head up the hill. No registration, no cell phone, not a single luxury, as primitive as can be, I even wore my old leather tele double boots. Had a fine time in the storm. Came back and hit the afternoon buffet and watched the wind blow. A rough outing. But back to the topic a hand the more that is done the more people will expect. Also there is no registration on the North side why just the south - ya get pepole on both sides. Of maybe 10 trips up the hill I think I have registered once and that was over 25 years ago.

Nice !!