TimL

Very true. It was my first placement off the belay. Some people might want a #5 some might not. I guess its whatever lets you have the most fun on a good route.

A number #5 would work but if I recall correctly when we did it in a snow storm a couple of years ago I placed a #2 or a #4 close together at the bottom of the cracks and it was easy climbing for about 15 feet till you topped out on the bear hug pitch and could get good gear. You could lead Toxic with it and instead of clipping the 3rd bolt, you could plug the #5 into the big bucket. DFA - Get real man. If I was seen with a #5 Camalot in the park, let alone on that climb I'd have my Smith Rock Sport Climber membership card revoked.

A number #5 would work but if I recall correctly when we did it in a snow storm a couple of years ago I placed a #2 or a #4 close together at the bottom of the cracks and it was easy climbing for about 15 feet till you topped out on the bear hug pitch and could get good gear.

I love Squamish for that reason and many others!

I bought one of these monsters about 3 years ago and besides hanging in my closet like an upside down Christmas tree I have yet to actually use it in any of my trips to Yosemite nor around here in the PNW. I have yet to come across a crack that big that I can't protect with smaller gear inside the crack or close by or just run it out a 10-15 feet and have good gear. I think this year is the time to use this bad boy. Can anyone think of climbs you can do that require a #5 Camalot for protection. By require I mean there are no smaller cracks or ample opportunities for protection in the immediate vicinity. Basically, your ran out and a # 5 is the only thing that will work in a huge crack that’s truly a mind bender. I can only think of one or 2 climbs that might fit like Pipeline or the offwidth pitch of Backbone Ridge of Dragontail (I've heard of people using a #5 of this pitch but don't know if its required). Can anyone think of others? They must be around? Spray away!

I thought that was called a good time.

It'll rain for about 5 minues and then stop. Just abut enough time to run for cover and lower off a climb then the sun comes back out. Just go. You'll be able to climb.

I have to give credit were credit is due. I sent 4 cams backed to Metolius to be re-slung and wired. Sent them on a Tuesday and they returned back to my door the following Thursday. 9 friggin days! Not only are those guys quick, they did an awesome job making my cams look like new. to the Metolius crew.

I vote we make glassgowkiss chief moderator

Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 12:11 p.m. Pacific Avalanche in B.C. kills two skiers from Seattle By The Associated Press E-mail this article Print this article Search web archive NELSON, B.C. — Two men from Seattle were killed by an avalanche yesterday afternoon while back-country skiing near Nelson, B.C. The men were identified as Ronald Gregg, 55, and James Schmid, 42, by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) detachment in Nelson, which is 34 miles north of the U.S. border in southeast British Columbia. Gregg and Schmid were with two other skiers in the Grizzly Bowl area of Kokanee Glacier Provincial Park when they were hit by the avalanche about 2 p.m., according to the RCMP. Both men were dead by the time British Columbia Parks police and rescuers reached them, said the RCMP's, Cpl. Grace Arnott. The skiers apparently hiked into the region and were skiing out when the avalanche occurred. The RCMP said they had no further details about the avalanche, nor about the other skiers who were with the two victims. Eighteen people have been killed in British Columbia avalanches this winter, including 14 in the Revelstoke region, about 90 miles north of Nelson. Seven teenagers from Calgary were killed in Glacier Park Feb. 1, and seven skiers and snowboarders were killed in the back country north of Revelstoke on Jan. 20.

Sounds like Ray and Milosh did the first winter ascent of the North face of Mt. Triumph

Did monkey space last year and all the bolts were nice and new. I thought the first 5.11a pitch was amazing. The second 5.11b pitch was not my cup of tea but I could see how some people like it.

Stuff comes down around Index in good weather. Yet alone bad. Actually, I've been aiding up City Park in winter just after a storm when everything wall thawing out. Much to my disbelief a friggin huge slide of snow, ice, mud and rock came from the left huge corner in the quarry. The debris fanned out as far as thin fingers and sent projectiles as far as the train tracks. Pretty scary stuff.

Knowingly and willingly putting yourself in an epic situation in which you will have to break the established and agreed upon norms of the day (not nailing on clean aid routes) is not an excuse for destroying routes. The UTW routes are of a crag nature and I would consider it pure rock climbing. ALthough rock climbing is part of mountaineering, I think the upper town wall, although the approach is cruel for a crag, are pure rock climbing routes. Mountaineering ethics need not apply. I learned how to aid in the know and rain at Index years ago in full on conditions without placing pins. From time to time I'll go out and aid solo in nasty conditions because its fun to test your skills in a more or less controlled environment. Still, thats no excuse to destroy clean routes by pounding pins. Earlier this winter a friend and I tried Green Dragon in full on conditions like bcollins described. I came to same spot twenty feet above my last peice on wet slippery slab and twenty feet to the anchors. I yelled down to my my belayer decribed the situation and his next lead in a waterfall and we decided that its not worth it. So I down climbed and aided down the route. At that time the route was above our acceptable level of risk and we wern't going to nail in order to make it safer. Bcollins, I applaud you for going out in nasty conditions and trying to get up GD. Thats cool. Whats not cool is nailing on a clean routes.

No, it's not obvious. Mountaineering in different conditions requires different strategies. Mountain climbing on the lead is a serious experience. There's nothing artificial about it, and the reasonable measures you take to save your butt are completely ethical. Bolting on rappel with the intent of creating a future "lead"...now that is an abomination. It's ugly, cowardly and damaging, and it's completley unnecessary for your immediate safety. A couple of pins pounded in a snow storm really bother you? But I doubt that when somebody adds a batch of chicken bolts for the complete free ascent, I doubt that's going to bother you. Whats obvious is that Green Dragon is rock climbing not mountaineering. More specifically aid climbing. Thats a far cry from mountaineering. I guess if you call aid climbing at the UTW mountaineering then I can call clipping bolts at Smith alpine climbing. Yes, a couple pins pounded in during a snowstorm are a bother. Especially on a clean trade route. Cause after a couple pins in a snowstorm its going to be a couple pins in the summer. After a while the route will be C1 downgraded from C2/C3. The truth of the matter is that Pope is a hypocrite. Its ok to pound pins into a clean trade route thus damaging and defacing the rock but its a crime to bolt a blank face. I call bullshit. In my humble opinion its not cool to bolt an aid climb so you can free it. Either you have the balls to free it in existing conditions or you don't. Same with clean aid and chicken bolts on nailing route. If you don't have what it takes to do it then be a big enough of a person to admit it.

This kind of falls along the same lines but a couple months ago I was hammering a pin into some alpine choss, clipped carabiner/sling to it, decided I wanted to smack a couple more times for good measures and accidently smacked the carabiner a couple times with my ice hammer. After inspecting it later I noticed a couple dings. I think its fine to use but what would other people do? Retire it? Use it as a bail biner? Has anyone actually had a carabiner fail or break in a fall and why?

Thats friggin lame. Why did you bring pins on a totally clean route to begin with? I think it even says in the book. No pins.

If I had to guess, Ed is on the Girth Pillar and that could be the Ice Cliff Glacier Couloir.

I think you need to go back and reread the cc.com flow chart... that might help you make a climbing conection Nice one Muffy!

Paul - JJA and I did Night n Gale a 1 1/2 week ago. It was in good. Salmon Stakes looked thin and the Shriek of the Sheep was in but the top pitch wasn't fully formed but doable. Who knows what its like now. Probably still good if avy hazards arn't to bad.

I have an old school budy who whips off of 12's, pulls the rope then sends. Bruce is bad ass!

Why is this coming from the man who said, "I've never been weathered out at Smith". Weather doesn't look that bad Saturday. Partly cloudy. Slight chance of rain with chance or rain and snow near the crest. Highs near 50. Southwest wind 15 to 25 mph. Chance of rain 20 percent except 50 percent near the crest. Saturday night. Partly cloudy. Chance of rain. Lows in the 30s. Southwest wind 15 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 30 percent. Sunday. Mostly cloudy. Chance of rain. Highs in the mid to upper 50s. Chance of rain 30 percent. Sunday night. Partly cloudy. Slight chance of rain and snow. Lows in the 30s. Chance of rain and snow 20 percent. Have a good time!

Right on! Actually, too young, give him a coke.

Regarding the Icy BC fall, I was belaying JJA and saw the guy take a 30+ foot wipper almost hitting the deck. Thank god he was able to be carried away with apparently only a gash to his head and a broken/sprained ankle. to everyone for helping get him out.

First time I've seen this thread. Good job you guys!