TR: REI BLOWS!! SHOP ELSEWHERE!!!!

[Choada_Boy]

Here's the Skinny:

 

1) Bought a BD 1/2 Dome Helmet

2) Cracked it while hanging it off of my pack.

3) Exchanged for new 1/2 Dome

4) Cracked it while hanging it off of my pack.

 

So I go into my local REI looking for a refund, seeing as a helmet that cracks while hanging from the back of your pack is a piece of shit, in my opinion.

 

The girl at the counter has no clue what helmets are all about, so she has to go and get a second opinion. She comes back and tells me that:

 

1) The helmet is older than the BD warranty

2) The damage is considered part of "normal wear and tear"

 

Seeing as I'm getting nowhere with her, I say "Hold on a second" and head out to the car to get my ten-year-old helmet I brought along for this very purpose. As I'm walking out I hear her over the intercom calling "Kory to customer service please", so I know things are going to get fun when I get back in.

 

Kory starts giving me the same schpeel about normal wear and tear, and I'm starting to turn up the volume, pointing to the sign that says "100% Satisfaction Guaranteed", and talking about REI selling defective equipment, all the while with a line of customers getting to hear the whole thing.

 

Kory keeps going on about how it's normal wear and tear. I show him the 10 year old helmet, which I used in the same way. He tells me it's made of tougher plastic. I tell him it's ten years old, and that a helmet made last year should be made from materials as tough or tougher. He tells me the ½ Dome is a light-weight helmet made for beginners. I laugh.

 

I show Kory that you can rip the BD material with you bare hands. (The girls behind the counter really cringed over that one, not in horror that I was literally tearing a $60 “helmet” to pieces with my bare hands, but because I was “destroying the evidence”, I assume) Kory tells me that the helmet is designed to be hit from above. I asked him if he's ever been Alpine climbing, and he says he has, and I present to him at least 10 scenarios where you could get hit by rock, or ice, or fall onto, the front, sides, or back of a helmet. I ask him what he thought a falling rock would do to plastic that you can tear with your bare hands. I ask him why REI sells defective equipment. I tell him that I’ve been using a helmet for a year with the expectation that it was keeping me safe and come to find out it’s a worthless piece of shit. He's sticking to his guns. Meanwhile I'm getting pissed, and a lot louder, and if you don't know me, I'm a pretty intimidating looking dude.

 

Then manager man, heavy with REI flare, comes over, asks what the problem is, and says "as far as a refund, that's not a problem." I'm out of there in five minutes.

 

Here's the kicker: While I'm at the counter, my wife is shopping around the store. When she saw the girl walking across the store with my helmet, she wandered over to where she was talking to manager man, the same manager man who told me that a refund would not be a problem, and manager man told the girl:

 

"That's normal wear and tear. Tell him no refund."

 

(My wife knows me well enough to have told me this story well after we had driven away from the store)

 

So:

1) The BD ½ Dome is a worthless piece of trash

2) REI sells defective equipment and refuses to admit it

3) REI employs staff who are ignorant of the real-world uses of the products they sell

4) REI is reluctant to stand behind their 100% Satisfaction Guarantee and will only do so under extreme duress

5) REI has at least one manager who is willing to allow his staff to get put through the ringer by an angry yet reasonable customer, then come along and say “Problem? What problem?”

 

A better strategy would have been to give me the refund in the first place, rather than piss me off, let a whole bunch of customers hear how pissed off I am and why, then give me the refund. Had I got a refund initially, for example, the WHOLE WORLD wouldn’t be reading this story about how REI BLOWS, has TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE, SELLS DEFECTIVE EQUIPMENT, and that people should NEVER shop there under any circumstances.

 

The funniest part was when manager-man asked me how many “seasons” I had owned the helmet.

 

’Seasons?’ What the hell are you talking about?”

[Alpinfox]

The fact that the BD half dome cracks under flexion and is a lightweight, non-durable helmet shouldn't be any surprise to you. I've seen that fact mentioned in every review I've ever read about the helmet. It's also immediately obvious when handling the helmet. Caveat Emptor? How about a little personal responsibility?

 

You got your money back for returning a heavily used helmet. I don't think you should be complaining (except maybe to BD for making a flimsy helmet in the first place).

 

True, the REI staff is not as knowledgable as folks at FF or PMS. So what? It's a good place to buy stuff becuase they have just about everything and their return policy, as you demonstrated here, is awesome.

 

In short, CLIMB YOUR SIXTY METERS AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!

 

Nice climbing on three fingers by the way.

[olyclimber]

Did you get any good photos of the route? I was thinking of returning something to REI myself.

[genepires]

Good job sticking to it Justin! Sucks that you had to go through all that crap. Maybe you should send this post as a message to corporate rei as a comment on the mangement at that store. (bellingham right?) Hopefully that kind of bad management doesn't exist in all stores.

 

Glad to see you are back.

[ashw_justin]

yeah lightweight gear is for pansies, lol

 

I like the ripping things apart with bare hands part, though

[Choada_Boy]

...their return policy, as you demonstrated here, is awesome.

 

Pissing off a customer in front of a bunch of other customers, and refusing to stand behind the "100% Satisfaction Guranteed" claim unless pressed is an "awesome" return policy? I can only think that MEC staff would have given me a refund instantly, offered me a coupon for free gear for having been shamed deeply by being seen holding such a peice of crap, and offered to commit sepuku. I feel bad for the weak-sauce types who have a similar gripe but are more easily turned away...

[philfort]

If there was a defect with that one particular helmet, I'd see your point. But if this is a well-known and expected quality of the helmet, you sound like yet another customer trying to take advantage of their return policy. Take it up with Black Diamond's QA department or something.

 

I have a go-lite pack. After only a year or two, it's slowly ripping apart due to the heavy use it has received. I'd feel like a total chode trying to return it to REI because of a decision I made to choose something lightweight and non-durable.

 

edited to add: ok, so maybe you have a point. Looking at BD's site, the half-dome appears to be marketed as a durable full-strength helmet.

Edited February 26, 2006 by philfort

[EJohnson]

Outdoor stores with elevators are not serious about the outdoors.

[Redoubt]

Outdoor stores with elevators are not serious about the outdoors.

I agree, and if those idiots in wheelchairs can't get up the stairs they should just stay home!

[Squid]

I don't see why you're getting all bent out of shape- Heck- You're an OWNER OF THE COOP!

 

Just go to one of those owner meetings and ask that someone sit down & talk with that manager about his practices.

[JayB]

I think the lamest part about the story is the manager using the low-level folks as flak-catchers, then cruising over and acting like they weren't acting in accordance with his instructions.

 

I would be surprised if part of this isn't part of a larger problem, where they advertise the 100% satisfaction guarantee, then tell managers that part of their compensation is tied to the number of returns that they accept. If the membership-sales thing is any indication, I'd be surprised if something like this isn't going on.

 

The bottom line is that if REI has made a business decision to guarantee something as nebulous as "100% Satisfaction," - and someone must have looked at the cost-benefit metrics of this one a million times by now - they are going to have to expect people to take them at their word, and bring stuff back when they are not 100% satisfied, even if the customer's definition of satisfaction doesn't jive with the manager's. In this case, I can't help but think that most people aren't going to be pleased with a full-use helmet that cracks after anything less than a full-on impact.

 

That being said, I have been amazed by the stories of people returning boots after hiking the PCT with them, or deciding that they are no longer satisfied after 10 years of using a tent. To me that's more or less tantamount to strolling up to the counter and saying:

 

"No - as a matter of fact, I don't have any integrity whatsoever, and I am willing to compromise whatever's left of my ethics over a $20 pair of sandals."

 

"Hahaha. Yes, yes, I am that shameless - really - and moreover, I am willing to taint myself further by pretending that it is you - rather than I - that am in the wrong here."

 

"Wait - it gets better. As a matter of fact, If given a chance I would make change in the Salvation Army bucket. Too bad about the lids on those suckers, hehe."

[Squid]

This episode catches the cynical nature of the "100% guarantee (unless we can intimidate you into not using it)." Coupled with the cynical support of "coop membership," it seems that as an organization, REI is engaged in manipulating appearances for its maximum economic reward. That wouldn't suprise any for an Exxon or Enron, but it is at odds with the image that REI members thought they were buying.

 

I think that as people realize they've paid money to get something with slightly less value than their Safeway Club card, they switch from being REI members to players in a cat-n-mouse game of extract-the-most-value-from-the-opposing-player; where once you had people who felt like they belonged to a fraternity of supportive outdoor enthusiasts, you now have people who simply want to screw the corporation more than it screws them.

 

 

This was my month's entry in the Post like JayB Contest.

[JayB]

Not bad, but you'd have scored higher with a "hitherto" or "erstwhile" in there somewhere.

[cj001f]

I think that as people realize they've paid money to get something with slightly less value than their Safeway Club card, they switch from being REI members to players in a cat-n-mouse game of extract-the-most-value-from-the-opposing-player; where once you had people who felt like they belonged to a fraternity of supportive outdoor enthusiasts, you now have people who simply want to screw the corporation more than it screws them.

Yes. When said corporation (REI) knowingly puts defective merchandise back on the shelf - in my case a bike fender kit without mounting hardware and a defective Suunto - ethical conduct can become more, err, flexible.

 

Now where's my damn rebate coupon!

[tyree]

All that I can say is there used to be some decent gear stores here in Bellingham until REI came in and drove them all out of business. Now if you want anything resembling hardware you have to order it online. No iron, tools lightweight shelters, all that is there is some doggie toys and womens clothing. Its a godammed backpacker's boutique! I think that if a store moves into town and runs all of the good hardware stores out of business they have a social responsibility to the climbing community to carry the products they need for their pursuits. REI and retun anything you can get away with!

[layton]

All that I can say is there used to be some decent gear stores here in Bellingham until REI came in and drove them all out of business. Now if you want anything resembling hardware you have to order it online. No iron, tools lightweight shelters, all that is there is some doggie toys and womens clothing. Its a godammed backpacker's boutique! I think that if a store moves into town and runs all of the good hardware stores out of business they have a social responsibility to the climbing community to carry the products they need for their pursuits. REI and retun anything you can get away with!

 

Well Said!!!

 

 

click me!!!

[ashw_justin]

I can't believe it when Base Camp closed. It's like REI kicked my childhood dog. If any of you Bellinghamsters have a soul left, then you can help to stop the raping of the town by non-local interests. Shop at American Alpine Institute, Fairhaven Bike and Mountain Sports, or Sportsmans' Chalet instead.

 

StaREIbucks is no different now than any other national chain, sadly. Like the rest of America, whatever grace it had was violated by the "growth is success and success is growth" disease. (There must be some metaphysical connection to the obesity problem... )

[Blake]

AAI shop in town is small but has good stuff and not a bunch of useless nonsense.

[EJohnson]

The Walmart of the outdoor world

[Bergretter]

I have a sore spot for REI as well, I was working for Base Camp when REI entered the Bellingham scene, that was a sad time for sure. Everyone has a choice to support the local shops, they may not have the same 'great' return policy or 'huge' selection but they are trying to make a living genuinely helping others do what they love, give them the first chance.

[Mos_Chillin]

Hey, Justin, how many phonebooks did you tear up in preparation for your show?

[Johnny_Tuff]

bitch, bitch, bitch

 

Perhaps if you employed some tact instead of behaving like Bruce Banner going Hulk, you might have gotten the service you so whiningly claim you deserve. Treating employees like shit because the company that employs them carries a product you don't like (which you for some reason got a second time, even though you hated it the first time--that was brilliant) is a great way to flex your ego while making someone unrelated to the problem feel like shit.

 

I think that blows.

[whidbey]

I'll second AAI... they are tiny but really do have most of what ya need. Plenty more hidden in the backrooms. Do I wish it was bigger?.. sure.. at the same time I like it's family kind of feeling.

 

Great advice most the time time and from people who do get out in the mountains. Something that is lacking from the dingdongs most the time at the REI in B'Ham. The have great chocolate stuff though... and really cool useless stuff that wouldn't see a trial if it's life depended on it.

[MisterMo]

OK let's take a look at your story:

 

You don't seem too eager to tell us how much you'd used it, although you admit that it was beyond BD warranty. And you're being all down on the manager for asking pretty much the same thing.

 

You expect us to believe that it broke "hanging from your pack". Yeah, sure, bullshit. You snagged it on something or you smooshed it against something. Maybe it's cheaply, too lightly, or poorly made or designed but, no, I don't believe it broke just hanging there.

 

It's such a horrible piece of shit REI shouldn't sell it, yet you bought TWO of them. Your insight seems rather finely tuned here.........

 

Then there's your whole testosterone-laden confrontation trip of which you appear fairly proud...........

 

In the meantime all those REI customers that everyone feels so superior to because they're fondling shirts instead of orgasming over wiregates or something have bought YOU two fucking helmets...........like magazine subscriptions or something...........use it a year, take it back and claim it's defective.

 

I submit here both that a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee carries ethical obligations on both sides and that disagreements between adults have a ground rule or two about conduct expectations. Maybe yer a nicer guy than you paint yourself to be, but, based on your account your star ain't shinin' real bright at the moment..............

[mountainhesh]

Speaking from back in the retail day, it doesn't get any better than shutting down a "pretty intimidating looking dude" and his sidekick wife. REI sucks, yeah so what.