26 dead in Connecticut elementary school

[glassgowkiss]

kids should be required to buy a kevlar backpacks, and teachers should carry assault rifles in the classroom.

[ivan]

my razor-sharp wit is weapon enough...

[Crux]

kids should be required to buy a kevlar backpacks, and teachers should carry assault rifles in the classroom.

Pffft! The specter of violent evil we face cannot be trifled with by such meager means. Kids must be required to be covered in Kevlar, from head to toe. And teachers must have rocket propelled grenades. This will be costly, but once we capture the oil of EVIL (it exists) we can cover the expenses from that.

[yellowlab03]

most of the power on the issue is of course supposed to be held by the congress

 

the original bill of rights that emerged from the english civil war of the 17th century did also contain a right to own weapons, though in a predictably english fashion w/ lotza clauses n' what-have-you's regarding social classes n' sorts of weapons n' such

 

bottom line, drag jefferson or washington out of their graves and ask them if a homeboy w/ no education/property/social-standing should be able to have a weapon giving him the firepower of an entire 18th century regiment, what do you think they'd say?

 

What would you think they would say about the 1st amendment? Do you think they would be cool with the civil rights movements or the God hates fags crowd?

[prole]

drag jefferson or washington out of their graves and ask them if a homeboy w/ no education/property/social-standing should be able to have a weapon giving him the firepower of an entire 18th century regiment, what do you think they'd say?

 

Today's MMA fighters using modern techniques would slaughter them.

[ivan]

Fake Ivan here.

 

Hard to keep up with the lunacy, but regarding the idea floating around that government policies to curb behavior don't work - drunk driving is down by half since the early 80s.

 

Drug prohibition is bad policy - it punishes private behavior. Anti drunk driving laws and public education is good policy - drunk driving is public, not private, behavior.

[ivan]

 

What would you think they would say about the 1st amendment? Do you think they would be cool with the civil rights movements or the God hates fags crowd?

"the tumultuous sea of liberty is never w/o a wave"

[rob]

The 2nd amendment does say a "well regulated" militia. Our militia is lookin a tad bit unregulated for my tastes.

[Jim]

I'm glad the NRA is working on a brilliant new solution. Tough times demand creative thinking.

 

As parents, we do everything we can to keep our children safe. It is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school. The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

 

We Need More Guns

[genepires]

imagine the safety if we had BOTH armed guards and the wackos did not have guns?

 

but my idea is just too crazy to work. much better to have a good old shooting match.

 

[KirkW]

I'm glad the NRA is working on a brilliant new solution. Tough times demand creative thinking.

 

As parents, we do everything we can to keep our children safe. It is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school. The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

 

We Need More Guns

 

That is some scary shit right there. It's time to take the guns away from these bat shit crazy fuckers. I don't think they're gonna do that willingly, and they've got most of the guns. So now what?

 

[murraysovereign]

No mention of how to pay for keeping a couple of armed guards on duty in every school in the country - how many billions a year is that going to cost? But he clearly told congress to "appropriate whatever means" to make it happen. So, how would the NRA feel about a sales tax on ammunition - say $1 or $2 per bullet, in order to pay for this plan? Surely they couldn't object to that? After all, he clearly stated "it is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school." I say call him on it.

[dougd]

"So now what?"

 

Good question Kirk. I wish I had the answer...

 

I think realistically we start with legislation banning military style assault weapons, high capacity magazines, closing loopholes like gun show sales, tighten up background check systems, look at requirements for gun owners with kids living at home, and better treatment of our mentally ill in this country.

 

How realistic this short list is given political realities these days? I don't think I'd be betting any of my hard earned dollars on any of it getting done...

 

The guns that are already out there? I guess they just stay out there, rounding them up would be pretty tough.

 

d

[KirkW]

 

The guns that are already out there? I guess they just stay out there, rounding them up would be pretty tough.

 

d

 

I've got a cousin or three that have reoccurring wet dreams of going out in a blaze of glory should the man show up at their collective doors to take their guns away. They've got lots of friends and even more guns. I'm not so concerned with the Nancy Lanzas of the world having these kinds of guns but my relatives back n the Midwest scare the shit out of me with their military/police/eagle worship. They shouldn't even be allowed to own pointy objects they're so fucking nuts.

 

This is a hill I think a lot of the gun nuts are willing to die on. Especially given their feelings towards the re election of that black dude and their very justifiable concerns that the country seems to be turning against their bullshit in general. And...they are breeding like nymphomaniac rabbits.

 

I don't think we can legislate our way out of this one.

 

[matt_warfield]

Raid in Kenyan village kills 28 just recently.

 

Syria death toll: 50,000

 

Rwanda deaths by genocide death toll: at least 500,000.

 

It's all terrible but let's just keep things in perspective, remember there is an entire world out there, and we all wish for peace on earth.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 22, 2012 by matt_warfield

[KirkW]

Raid in Kenyan village kills 28 just recently.

 

Syria death toll: 50,000

 

Rwanda deaths by genocide death toll: at least 500,000.

 

It's all terrible but let's just keep things in perspective, remember there is an entire world out there, and we all wish for peace on earth.

 

Good luck.

 

Is that directed at me? I believe I was calling for perspective the other day when you were looking to revive Nancy Lanza just so you could tell her what a lousy parent she was. I don't think I've lost perspective on the situation since then but if you think I have please explain your comment.

 

And no, I don't think my cousins want peace on earth. They're more interested in killin' shit. But if you're actually from Mantana then you all ready know this.

[matt_warfield]

Raid in Kenyan village kills 28 just recently.

 

Syria death toll: 50,000

 

Rwanda deaths by genocide death toll: at least 500,000.

 

It's all terrible but let's just keep things in perspective, remember there is an entire world out there, and we all wish for peace on earth.

 

Good luck.

 

Is that directed at me? I believe I was calling for perspective the other day when you were looking to revive Nancy Lanza just so you could tell her what a lousy parent she was. I don't think I've lost perspective on the situation since then but if you think I have please explain your comment.

 

And no, I don't think my cousins want peace on earth. They're more interested in killin' shit. But if you're actually from Mantana then you all ready know this.

 

Not directed at you, just the news. Shit happens all over the world. But if you are worried about mental health or drugs or alcohol of anyone in the house why have any unsecured weapons in the house. It's really easy to secure them.

 

And rural areas of MT are very responsible with firearms and just want to keep them for the right purposes.

 

And I am from Montana and am in Montana and know a huge bunch of Montanans.

Edited December 22, 2012 by matt_warfield

[dougd]

 

The guns that are already out there? I guess they just stay out there, rounding them up would be pretty tough.

 

d

 

I've got a cousin or three that have reoccurring wet dreams of going out in a blaze of glory should the man show up at their collective doors to take their guns away. They've got lots of friends and even more guns. I'm not so concerned with the Nancy Lanzas of the world having these kinds of guns but my relatives back n the Midwest scare the shit out of me with their military/police/eagle worship. They shouldn't even be allowed to own pointy objects they're so fucking nuts.

 

This is a hill I think a lot of the gun nuts are willing to die on. Especially given their feelings towards the re election of that black dude and their very justifiable concerns that the country seems to be turning against their bullshit in general. And...they are breeding like nymphomaniac rabbits.

 

I don't think we can legislate our way out of this one.

 

I do wonder just how many of these heroes will be willing to die for such a cause when the fecal matter actually hits the fan...

 

I can agree that legislation alone will not cure this societal ill... Many, including me believe we have to do something. It's a start in the correct direction and something that seems at least possible after the most recent slaughter of innocents...

 

The nra thinks we should arm teachers now? Now that's insane. Ivan feel free to weigh in here...

[KirkW]

So insane that I think mandatory mental health screening of all 4 million members of this organization should commence immediately. Anyone thinking this is a good idea should forfeit all rights to gun ownership.

 

I was expecting them to come out with some luke warm feel good bullshit but they just said fuck it and went full on crazy. No apologies.

 

Obviously not all NRA members would be willing to die for their guns but I know that at least one of my aforementioned cousins would love to martyr himself to the second amendment. I'm also sure he'd have no moral qualms about taking his wife and 3 kids with him. "Better to be dead than live in a world with no god or guns"

Edited December 22, 2012 by KirkW

[matt_warfield]

So insane that I think mandatory mental health screening of all 4 million members of this organization should commence immediately. Anyone thinking this is a good idea should forfeit all rights to gun ownership.

 

I was expecting them to come out with some luke warm feel good bullshit but they just said fuck it and went full on crazy. No apologies.

 

Obviously not all NRA members would be willing to die for their guns but I know that at least one of my aforementioned cousins would love to martyr himself to the second amendment. I'm also sure he'd have no moral qualms about taking his wife and 3 kids with him. "Better to be dead than live in a world with no god or guns"

 

I'm sorry about your cousins' situation but most killers are not members of the NRA. The NRA espouses responsible gun use as does the 2nd amendment. People that break the law do not follow either edict. I am pretty sure weapons will be around regardless of any law.

 

People are the problem and not the weapons. Keep a close watch on your cousins.

 

And arming teachers is NOT the solution unless you want to include the rest of the known occupants of our planet. Some are responsible, some are not, some are teachers, and some are not, some are your neighbors and some are not, some are trained and some are not. But punishing the almost everyone because of the small seems over the top.

 

I swore I wasn't going to keep going on this thread but apparently it isn't working.

 

So for the hell of it I'll keep it rolling. You can screen or background check everybody, but you also have to have judgment about who you know. Restrictions at schools are great but how about EVERY OTHER FUCKING PLACE ON EARTH. Let's just ring up Dahmer, Manson, Rader, Ridgway, and Gacy and ask them if availabilty of a weapon was a problem.

 

It is kind of like restricting the flow of drugs from Mexico. We try our best but our reach is less than our aim.

 

Be careful out there.

Edited December 22, 2012 by matt_warfield

[ivan]

Fake Ivan says:

 

Um...no. It really is the weapons. Too many of them, to be specific.

 

An American has a 15x greater chance per capita of being shot than an Australian, despite very similar cultures. The difference is strict gun owernship policies in Australia.

 

Merkins talk a big game but no one's going to do fuck all when the guvernment comes for their guns. People's balls tend to shrink a lot when staring down a felony weapons charge.

 

Plus, SWAT teams know how to handle the bunker crowd, should such a suicide by cop situation occur. After one or two culling incidents (if they happen at all) that'll be the end of that fad. The gene pool needs a little cleaning up now and then.

 

 

Americans are pretty fucking tired of watching kids die so a few undersexed overfed white males can play Red Dawn. It's all part of America's being fed up with its own retardation - Kristianity - declining. Anti-gay bigotry - declining. Anti tax lunacy - declining. Tolerance of gun nut culture and the violence it spawns - also declining.

 

Americans are also pretty tired of the NRA's solution of more guns.

 

In the past 30 years, not a single one of the 62 mass shootings was stopped by a good guy with a gun. A deputy missed the perp 4 times during Columbine - 11 more people died after he missed. During that same 30 years, highly trained police have accidentally shot thousands of other good guys.

 

But the NRA isn't about public safety. No, not so much. They're about helping their corporate sponsors sell guns. Lots and lots of guns. They've crafted their message to resonate with the freaks and wannabes in Merka - a huge population, apparently.

 

About once a century, somebody actually protects their family from flesh eaters with a gun. The rest of guns incidents involve kids shooting each other or themselves accidentally, people shooting family members or the dog they THOUGHT were intruders, angry boyfriends shooting that fucking ho, and depressed people shooting themselves.

 

"I'd rather have a gun and not need one than not have one when I do"

 

No, actually, you wouldn't.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2012 by ivan

[matt_warfield]

Fake Ivan,

 

Australia is not the US. I wonder how many gang members and drug dealers and mentally ill per capita they have versus the US.

 

I agree 100% on the bunker crowd. A SWAT team could always take them out. The issue is that they are waiting for a big problem and not trying to create one.

 

The NRA is tricky. People want to have guns but they have to have the right guns for the right reasons. Plenty of sweat was spent on their response.

 

On mass shootings: I will stick with the fact that most states have background checks but you can get lots on the black market or if a friend or family member provides.

 

I will agree your self defense issue is valid. Most of the time the perp (who got their guns and knowledge somewhere) take it away from you and shoot you instead. That is why you have to go through firearms learning or bad shit can happen. But don't penalize people that have done that.

 

About the police: the media emphasizes a cop with a gun versus aimless machine gun bearers. The reality is that cops rarely use their guns.

 

We are talking about random events of violence and try as we might we can't control them. Put cops in schools. Fine. What about shopping malls, train stations, streets, hiking trails, etc.

 

You can implement any laws you want but there is always a way around any law to create mayhem.

 

Mental illness, anti-terrorism and education and some gun control but not too much.

 

Merry Christmas, and I hope good night to this thread.

Edited December 22, 2012 by matt_warfield

[genepires]

if the 2nd ammendment says we need to right to bear arms for a legitimate "militia", then why not allow citizens to own guns only if they are active members of the national guard or miitary? Then for the national guard annual service requirement, they can stand guard at the schools. Win-Win.

 

[prole]

About once a century, somebody actually protects their family from flesh eaters with a gun.

 

Would love to see some statistics on how often this actually happens. The Myth of Self Defense is the biggest, most successful fantasy concocted by the gun industry and fuelled by and large by racial fear.

[matt_warfield]

if the 2nd ammendment says we need to right to bear arms for a legitimate "militia", then why not allow citizens to own guns only if they are active members of the national guard or miitary? Then for the national guard annual service requirement, they can stand guard at the schools. Win-Win.

 

Or have gone through a gun ownership class and been evaluated for mental illness and have had a background check and are under 24/7 surveillance to make sure they can't circumvent the system.

 

It is a very difficult situation. And do you think a Congress who can't jump across a 3 foot moat to solve the fiscal cliff issue is going to do shit about this anyway? We are doing as much spraying as they are doing about anything.

 

At least we are nearly up to the number of pages as the flu thread. A little gift in jon's stocking for Christmas.

Edited December 22, 2012 by matt_warfield