layton Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 you're bailing down a wall but not the way you came up. There is good enough gear to make and leave anchors, but it looks REALLY hard, if not impossible for you to re-climb. You look below and you're above a GIANT roof. You rap the roof, but can't swing over to the wall. fucked? Quote
rob Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Depends. Can I see the lights of Pinedale? Quote
wayne Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Toni Kurz was victim to a similar circumstance and yes was not a good ending. I lost a whole rack bailing the wrong way off El Cap. Nightmare scenarios need extra cool temperament, crafty tricks, and luck. Quote
yikes Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Perhaps I'm Monday morning quarterbacking your scenario but if I were still above the roof when I saw it. I would try to rap around it rather than over. Maybe that wasn't an option in your scenario due to no neighboring systems, etc? My answer to what you explicitly say is that I might chain some wired nuts together and starting fishing for something at the wall under the roof. Depends on how far away it was I guess? Something similar happened to me on Breakfast of Champions at Index. I was rapping on an unfamiliar rope and didn't pay attention to the fact that it didn't reach the slab under the first set of chains much less the ground. I knew I'd rapped to the ground with a single rope before but that one wasn't mine either. Anyway, I didn't catch my error until it was too late. I had to rap til my right fist completely enclosed the tail of the rope and then could barely push with the tip of big toe to start a swing to the anchor. Rookie mistake. Too bad I can't use that as an excuse. Nothing like the heinous alpine epic you're proposing but just as potentially deadly. Quote
ivan Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 hope at least to ascend the rap line and either try to swing again or find another way down - either way, wtf else ya gonna do? this scenario is precisely why i bitch-slapped my boy when he kept urging bailing straight down the salathe from el cap spire instead of doing all the annoying swings and down-aid to get back to the heart ledges fixed lines! Quote
layton Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 i know, it's basically an unsolvable situation. the would'a, should'a, could'a, or what if's are interesting though Quote
Plaidman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Jug back up the rope, try again? Yep. Start over. If you don't have jugs you need a prusik or two. I always have a least one and have a least one sling that I can make klemheist with. I had to re-ascend a rope in Yosemite once and get all the way back to the anchor. We tried to rap off an anchor that required 2 ropes. We then used the walk off which should have been our first option. You could do what these guys did on El Cap, but I would not suggest it. http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1886785/Rappelling-El-Capitan Quote
layton Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) how about this for an idea? Bring the anchor down to as close to the lip as possible. Fix both ropes together, and fix the end of the joined lines to the anchor. This way you've got 400 feet to of rope to at least reach the wall behind the roof. Find a crack on the wall, and solo-aid until you reach the knot, and the end of the first rope. Build an anchor, have your partner pull both ropes up (knotting the ends) and rapping down and swinging while you grab him - possibly tossing him out a lasso of hitched slings, and aluminum stays from your backpack. just a totally ridiculous idea, i know I call this technique the Layton Kobayashi Maru Edited September 8, 2012 by layton Quote
Plaidman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) An interesting idea......maybe I hope I never have to do that though. Edited September 8, 2012 by Plaidman Quote
G-spotter Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 when you start projectile vomiting and/or shitting yourself from teh fear, use the momentum to push you into the wall. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 re-ascend until you can swing to a new anchor, move anchor, descend, repeat until dead or down. Is this a trick question? Quote
Rad Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Wait 'till Simon Yates cuts the rope, drop into a crevasse, crawl out, write a book... Quote
layton Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 not a trick, just a little hypothetical situation. what would you do after asecending the rope, but unable to re-lead higher? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) In general, exactly what I said, which, in one specific case, is exactly what you said. There is always the option of tying two ropes together, rapping and swinging to a climbable crack or route below the roof, ascending a rope length back up on top rope, anchoring, then having the top guy pull up a rope length and double rap to you. Why is this party blindly rapping over giant roofs again? Edited September 8, 2012 by tvashtarkatena Quote
layton Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 because i am their creator and I made them do it Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Well, in that case just kill Kenny. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) or descend at 9.8 m/s. The roof is not aidable? Edited September 8, 2012 by tvashtarkatena Quote
akhalteke Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 or descend at 9.8 m/s. The roof is not aidable? 9.8m/s squared Quote
matt_warfield Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 Dean Potter would just cast off with a parapente. Quote
Stefan Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 you're bailing down a wall but not the way you came up. There is good enough gear to make and leave anchors, but it looks REALLY hard, if not impossible for you to re-climb. You look below and you're above a GIANT roof. You rap the roof, but can't swing over to the wall. fucked? kinda happened to me. although it was a small roof. i just said "fuck it" and see what happens. the ropes landed on small bush tree growing out of a large crack below the roof for which I could not see. I was lucky. Quote
montypiton Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 not a half-bad exercise, Mr. Layton! I applaud the risk you took presenting it. I'm not suggesting a solution, but I gotta admit I'm impressed with some of the ones offered. and I'll offer one of my own favorite mantras when faced with "unsolvable" scenarios: there is no such thing as "thinking" inside the box! Well done! Quote
montypiton Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 reflecting on this puzzle, I realize that my girlfriend and her partner dealt with a closely analogous puzzle in 1979 when they were stormed off the Leaning Tower in The Valley. Their solution was for the first rappeler to "down-aid" a move or two periodically, and clip the rope to the wall, finally tieing the ends of the rope to the next rappel anchor to create a "j-line". The second rappeler would remove the pieces on his/her rappel. Seems like their solution would work over a roof... Quote
G-spotter Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 not a trick, just a little hypothetical situation. what would you do after asecending the rope, but unable to re-lead higher? AID SIDEWAYS WITH BATHOOK-HOLE LADDER MADE BY TAPPING MY NUT TOOL INTO THE BLANK ROCK UNTIL ABLE TO ESCAPE OVERHANGING BLANKNESS. THEN FIND MY CREATOR AND KICK HIM IN DA NUTZ SO DAMN HARD Quote
matt_warfield Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) The best thing is to talk to an AMGA certified guide because they know their shit better than 99.59% of the people on this site. Edited September 13, 2012 by matt_warfield Quote
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