what does a "runout" mean to you

[shapp]

To mean it means when I am in danger of actually hurting my self where I might actually need medical attention or loose a bunch of skin if I fall. Im not going to die, but I might get get bruised up, maybe need a stitch or two and generally not want to repeat the experience again after a fall.

 

I also feel like I am actually on a run out when I start getting a bit nervious and a little scared. However, I am a pussy and this usually happens before I am actaully on a "runout" where I might actually get hurt, so I guess its a good evolutionary trait.

 

What does "runout" mean to you. And in a big generalization, how far above a solid peice of A1 gear (bolt or trad I don't differntiate) with no potenial to deck or hit a ledge, do you start feeling the "runout" factor when climbing hard near your athletic limit.

Edited June 1, 2012 by shapp

[Plaidman]

To me run out is anything over 12 feet. Which would put the fall at about 24 feet or more. Somebody can do the rope stretch calculations. But I feel like it is reasonable to go up to between 5 to 8 feet above my last piece depending on the terrain. On routes I know I generally put in less pieces cuzz I know what to expect. (Oh damn, I forgot I am not supposed to make generalizations because I am not qualified to do so.)

Edited June 1, 2012 by Plaidman

[Plaidman]

On "Snake Dike" I think that if you look up the term run out in the dictionary there is a topo of "Snake Dike" in the definition.

[genepires]

it is a function of angle for me. Vertical ground, 10 feet is runout. 5.7 slabbage, 30 feet is OK. on a flat trail, I can go entire rope lengths before needing to have a piece of gear in.

[JosephH]

What is 'runout' to me is highly dependent on my physical and emotional shape at the time of the climb. It's also highly dependent on the characteristics of the route - availability and quality of the placements, quality of the rock, type of climbing, and who my partner / belayer is. Sometimes 10 feet seems runout and other times, like Bill illustrates above, you can go and go (even when it may or may not be a good idea).

 

Somedays I feel great and can't be bothered with too many placements, other days I sew it up any sections that make me nervous. And sometimes you really have to do a balancing act between hanging out dicking around with so-so placements and just climbing on to a better stance / placement even if you don't necessarily feel like it.

 

But overall, set distance rules around placements seems counterproductive to learning to respond to what you find when you get on an unfamiliar line.

[denalidave]

A bolt at chest level.

[Seamstress]

Near the ground or a ledge, a run-out is 5 feet for this coward. 50 feet off the deck with several good pieces below me and no ledge, I'll go 10 - 15 feet before the wailing commences with vigor - unless it is way over my head, then whining commences much earlier.

[hanman]

The Rash at 3:00 rock is runout as well as Shock Treatment P3@ static. Local benchmarks for me. Witnessed a 60 foot leg loop grinder @ static, strangely soft catch with so much rope out, bug eyed leader and a prompt silent hike out. He moved to MN shortly thereafter. Yikes

Mh

Edited June 1, 2012 by hanman

[B Deleted_Beck]

I think "runout" is more a state of climber condtion than a quantifiable rope:pro ratio... everyone has mentioned how their mindset and physical endurance plays into what they'd consider "a runout." I'd say it's not the section of route that's "a runout," it's ME that's runout... be it 3' above my last piece, or 30' above my last piece when it happens.

[Buckaroo]

Whatever it is, it gets shorter as you age. I used to climb Outer Space with about 10 cams to #2, and it never felt runout. I just climbed it this Monday with 14 cams to #3 and it felt runout more than once.

[JosephH]

Whatever it is, it gets shorter as you age. I used to climb Outer Space with about 10 cams to #2, and it never felt runout. I just climbed it this Monday with 14 cams to #3 and it felt runout more than once.

I've met folks who've had the opposite experience and are bolder later in life than when they were younger. I've been pretty consistent over time and, under the right circumstances, still more or less willing to whip my age for another year or two.

[DPS]

Whatever it is, it gets shorter as you age. I used to climb Outer Space with about 10 cams to #2, and it never felt runout. I just climbed it this Monday with 14 cams to #3 and it felt runout more than once.

I've climbed OS half a dozen times. The second time I remember needing # 1 and # 2 cams on the 5.7 hand crack leading to Library Ledge, so I conserved them, using nuts, hexes, and pieces in horizontal cracks. When I got to Libraray Ledge I realized I had not placed either my # 1 or #2 Camalots.

 

But I would put myself in the camp of being less tolerant of runouts now that I am older. Routes that I would solo I now happily rope up for and place gear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2012 by DPS

[kevbone]

On "Snake Dike" I think that if you look up the term run out in the dictionary there is a topo of "Snake Dike" in the definition.

 

No kidding. That climb is run out. Some of the pitches have no pro at all.

[rob]

Static point.

[G-spotter]

 

If the crux is protected, it doesn't feel runout even if otherwise there's little pro. But when there is a large distance from the crux to pro, then it feels runout.

[j_b]

Although I can't comprehensively define what is runout, I tend to think it is more objective than subjective, i.e. an unprotected 5.2 pitch is runout no matter one's skill level and psychology.

[markwebster]

Run outs *seem* longer if you are rusty, old or burned out. I'm all three right now, and my day at the Pinnacles Monday was horrible. I left at noon. On the trail out I kept looking back at people climbing run out routes that I normally love...but couldn't climb.

 

I need to stop working so much OT. That should help with the burn out. Can't fix the old problem. Vacation coming up should help with the rusty problem.

[Plaidman]

I hear drinking WD-40 can take care of the rust too. You may not live to tell about it though.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Plaidman

[Eric K]

When I am on vertical cliffs with little or no chance of decking or hitting a ledge run out starts about 12 feet up. I don't have much trad gear so I regularly end up running out my gear just so I have enough to finish the pitch. When the climbing is easier than 5.11 I enjoy a good runout. Some of my favorite climbs have really dicey run outs that makes the climb memorable.

 

Eric

[Tyson.g]

Spotter where is that?

 

[G-spotter]

http://mountainproject.com/v/beckey-routespeedway/106516455

[Tyson.g]

http://mountainproject.com/v/beckey-routespeedway/106516455

 

Thanks man.

 

[Rad]

I suspect there are two separate issues here: R and X ratings and the perception of whether a route is runout.

 

From a ratings standpoint, R (runout) usually means there is a high probability of some type of injury if you fall at the wrong spot. X is similar but there's a decent chance you'll die or be crippled if you screw up.

 

A long clean fall may not be grounds for an R rating (e.g. Tuolumne slabs or an overhanging sport route). It depends on the consequences of the fall. Short falls can be dangerous too, such as a pendulum onto a sharp flake or a hard move with groundfall potential or a spot where the rope is likely to come taut over a sharp edge.

 

These are fairly objective, though ability comes into play as well. Snakedike is a good example. The route is 5.7, the 5.7 cruxes are well protected, and the super runout terrain is on 5.2 or 5.easy ground where a solid 5.7 leader is very unlikely to fall.

 

These all assume you know how to place solid protection and fall safely (slide without tumbling on a slab, that you won't flip due to having the rope behind your leg etc.).

 

What most people above are talking about is the PERCEPTION of whether something is runout or not. That is highly subjective and can change from one person to the next and one day to the next with the same climber, as noted above.

[j_b]

These are fairly objective, though ability comes into play as well. Snakedike is a good example. The route is 5.7, the 5.7 cruxes are well protected, and the super runout terrain is on 5.2 or 5.easy ground where a solid 5.7 leader is very unlikely to fall.

 

I am with you but I am not sure the above is entirely consistent ("ability comes in to play"). Although I don't remember the climb very well, Snake dike is R rated.

[G-spotter]

One man's R rating is another's no big deal.