rl23455 Posted October 2, 2010 Posted October 2, 2010 Question about first ascents. Do you climb with three people for safety, or just be daring with loose rocks and other dangers and climb with two? This is a totally unknown crag about 2 hr drive from Portland. Columnar basalt, 2 footers. Very fine grained rock. I had to bail due to no pro/ beyond my "oh shit" factor.. I'm guessing 10b. Am bringing pitons next time. no cell phone coverage. thanks, rl Quote
layton Posted October 2, 2010 Posted October 2, 2010 bring as many people as possible to hype the endevor Quote
ols Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) How many people should be there? Just two people...you and the belayer because its a secret. The more people you tell the secret will get out. If yur site is composed of CRB basalt flows from eastern WA it is usually limited in usability. Columbia River Basalt is dense (5-6 hardness). Is the interior one single dark gray or blackish ground mass with no detectable crystals embedded with perhaps olivine? You can tell by simply cracking open a piece. Not easy to drill into. Better to climb on Andesitic formations...the nw Oregon standard. Edited October 6, 2010 by ols Quote
billcoe Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 Question about first ascents. Do you climb with three people for safety, or just be daring with loose rocks and other dangers and climb with two? This is a totally unknown crag about 2 hr drive from Portland. Columnar basalt, 2 footers. Very fine grained rock. I had to bail due to no pro/ beyond my "oh shit" factor.. I'm guessing 10b. Am bringing pitons next time. no cell phone coverage. thanks, rl Columns? 2 hours from PDX? If these are those columns in Skinners Butte in Eugene, most of those have seen ascents. I have a hard time believing that there is a totally unknown crag of splitter columns. If it's visible eastern Or rimrock, a lot of that has been climbed. I would think that it depends on your attitude and the situation what you want to do. If you have to walk up a rattlesnake infested slope, you have to ask what would happen if you took a hit at the furthermost point from the car. Is it an easy short trail or are you on a long circuitous trail hopping over boulders. Quote
fas Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) Columbia River Gorge (CRG) basalt is very dense (5-6 hardness scale). The hardness scale does not apply to rocks - just minerals. Also - it is a measure of resistance to being scratched and has nothing to do with how brittle or dense the mineral might be. (Since you seem to want to apply it to how breakable the rock is.) Edited October 4, 2010 by fas Quote
Alex Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 If you are doing FAs with a bunch of loose the best option is to rap-inspect the route(s) before you kill your belayer needlessly in the name of boldness Quote
RuMR Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 I would check with summitchaser as he's the most knowledgeable guy around these here parts for first ascent know-how! Quote
G-spotter Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 1) find a line climbed on trad gear sometime in the early 70s 2) add a dozen bolts 3) rename it 4) post details of your "first ascent" 5) sit back and enjoy the shit storm Quote
kevbone Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 1) find a line climbed on trad gear sometime in the early 70s 2) add a dozen bolts 3) rename it 4) post details of your "first ascent" 5) sit back and enjoy the shit storm Spraying in a non-spray forum....moderators. Quote
kevbone Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 Question about first ascents. Do you climb with three people for safety, or just be daring with loose rocks and other dangers and climb with two? This is a totally unknown crag about 2 hr drive from Portland. Columnar basalt, 2 footers. Very fine grained rock. I had to bail due to no pro/ beyond my "oh shit" factor.. I'm guessing 10b. Am bringing pitons next time. no cell phone coverage. thanks, rl Rap in first bro. That is "how to". Quote
RuMR Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 1) find a line climbed on trad gear sometime in the early 70s 2) add a dozen bolts 3) rename it 4) post details of your "first ascent" 5) sit back and enjoy the shit storm Spraying in a non-spray forum....moderators. pot kettle black... Quote
JosephH Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 If they're really 'unclimbed' (seems unlikely at that distance from PDX) then ground-up and onsight is the way to go - or leave them for someone who can. Quote
kevbone Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 then ground-up Ground up is so irresponsible. Quote
JosephH Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 Only in a post-modern, risk-free, group-oriented, can't-let-belaying-get-in-the-way-of-talking world - so yeah, most places these days. Quote
crimper Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 first off, it's pretty arrogant and ignorant to say there's no unclimbed rock within 2 hours of portland. right, like all 150 routes that went in at the drop zone and ozone between 2005 and 2010 had been toproped and/or led before? yeah, i'm sure the 5.11s and 5.12s were being soloed groundup back in the 1970s or whatever since there wasn't a pin, tat or bolt to be found on them. and that's just 30 miles from downtown portland, 50-100 feet off of highway 14! and in my few misguided months out at the lost wall i put up 2 new routes and saw 2 more go up. if that place wasn't now closed to climbing we'd have been able to put up another 10, or 20 or 30 if we wanted to keep on cleaning. and that crag is about 2 miles from carver, hardly the boonies. and don't say they were already done, i brought gary rall's topo, with all 8 mid 1990s routes listed on it (the same one in olson't guide) the first day i looked at the wall. so, no, the baby boomers did not climb every chunk of climbable rock within a 100 mile radius of portland. (or did i just get trolled?) Quote
JosephH Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 Clean, obvious, and good climbable rock? Hard to imagine it would have been missed. Garbage-strewn chossfests and wonder-knobs - maybe overlooked or just had a go or two. Hard to say for sure. Quote
crimper Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 on another note, of course an onsight ground-up FA is the best style to shoot for. but it's not always sane or safe to try that approach. from our armchairs we can't see what you see from the base of your proposed route, so any advice from this site is strictly rhetoric. i usually rapped in to the routes i've put up (maybe 80% of the 20-25 pitches i've put up - actually all, except the ones i put up around bend, where there's no moss and less choss!!) but i respect my friends who have groundupped their routes even when i wouldn't have done the same. they showed courage in the moment and managed their fear and (so far) stayed alive. so they learned a lot about climbing through danger, things you will never learn leading sport routes or putting up sport routes, things that might keep you alive some day when a situation gets weird. and while some of those routes turned out to be good routes with decent gear that get repeated, others turned out to be scary and sketchy routes that are now destined for obscurity. so it depends what you're looking for: are you looking to leave behind a legacy of routes that are safe that others will want to do? or are you looking for those few and intense moments of survival, and to hell with the route you leave behind? i think it's great that there are scary sketchy routes out there to marvel at. it's not at all "selfish" to leave behind a route like that. it's also cheaper! just understand that you might never want to repeat your own route, that's all. Quote
Rad Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 so it depends what you're looking for: are you looking to leave behind a legacy of routes that are safe that others will want to do? or are you looking for those few and intense moments of survival, and to hell with the route you leave behind? I agree with your assessment and personally believe that the needs of the many outweight the needs of the view (insert Spock emoticon). I also believe that one can find a middle ground between the extremees you mention, where there protection is spaced far enough apart to keep the leader engaged but close enough so no one gets killed or paralyzed. This is true regardless of whether you go ground up or top down. Quote
kevbone Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 on another note, of course an onsight ground-up FA is the best style to shoot for. In your opinion. Quote
JosephH Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I also believe that one can find a middle ground between the extremees you mention, where there protection is spaced far enough apart to keep the leader engaged but close enough so no one gets killed or paralyzed. This is true regardless of whether you go ground up or top down. If you're talking sport climbing. In trad climbing the gear you get is the gear you get - that by definition means not everyone will protect a pitch the same and it is what it is. Quote
pink Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 jules verne gets some pretty good traffic in eldorado canyon and it's not all cute and fluffy. perhaps the local chef can throw a hotdog on the menu at ur favorite 5 star restaurant so you can enjoy the nice atmosphere without having to go through all that trouble becoming rich Quote
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