Blake Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I was at some crags in Tumwater canyon yesterday for the first time (Clem's/Special spot/etc) and noticed lots of bolts right next to cracks. This is not a sport climbing area, and many of the routes required bringing gear along to protect parts of the climb anyways, so people really wont be up there with just QDs. Why are these bolts there, 1' or less from totally safe gear placements? Climbs like Gun Rack, the Javelin, Perils of Pauline, and a cfew others could safely be no-bolts, or with just one or two bolts near the top-out, past where cracks run out. I understand having two bolts at the top of the Javelin, to protect the thin/flexy flake, but all bolts below that were clipped while jamming hands in fingers in perfect splitter cracks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Leavenworth trad ethics is an oxymoron on some crags there. I've noticed similar lines in Icicle for years. And then you'll find crags that are done the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Chop, chop, chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Gun rack would definitely be a fun lead on gear as you'd have to hang from the lip to place gear in the upper crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Blake, if you don't put in lots of bolts (on rappell) and next to cracks then no one will no you were there and you can't get into the guidebooks and look cool for the mass hordes of 5.9 weekend warriors. While your at it, its also fashionable to clean up some overgrown boulders that generations of climbers have climbed before you, claim first ascent, give the boulder and your "new" problem some shnazzy name and write your own guide book about it. Happy times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I hate it when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I think pope did Javelin with gear only. I don't see why it would have been bolted either, maybe one on the starting slab, maybe. Those bolts are crap anyway, it seems to me whomever placed them either drilled the holes to shallow as you can't even tighten them down so the hangers don't wobble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 And a bolted crack as the guidebook cover shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Why are these bolts there, 1' or less from totally safe gear placements? Climbs like Gun Rack, the Javelin, Perils of Pauline, and a few others could safely be no-bolts, or with just one or two bolts near the top-out, past where cracks run out. Add them to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I think pope did Javelin with gear only. it might have been some guy named specialed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 (edited) And a bolted crack as the guidebook cover shot. That is Javelin 5.10- You would need some big gear to protect that climb. There is also some stuff on Duty Dome - Straight Street and uhh.. that other 5.9 to the right of Off Duty. Edited June 12, 2007 by fenderfour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 As far as the Javelin, you can protect it very safely with a single set of cams up to a #4 camalot. The #4 goes in near the top, and as long as the flake didn't break in the event of a fall, you'd be fine. I didn't take issue with that top thin-flake-protecting bolt so much as all the other very useless bolts below. Even if the flake is not safe for pro, there should be only a couple bolts on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Perils would be pretty bold without any bolts..if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_Bentley Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I'm all for the bolted cracks in question. I say keep those routes the way they are. There are better adventures on the other side of the river if you are against bolts. There are plenty of routes with no bolts for bold trad climbers like yourself. Take Recurve and Jupiter Tower for instance. I also suggest that you quit reading Viktor's guidebook to increase your boldness. Also you shouldn't climb with a rope. Better yet, no shoes either. No chalk....Just solo everything nude. That should get you recognized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 The people who put up those routes gave up time, effort and money to do so. Respect their views, put up your own routes and I'm sure they will respect yours. If we all agreed on style, every route would be done the same way, and I think the world would be poorer for it. Vive le diffrance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montypiton Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 we might do better to think in terms of "fashion" rather than "ethics" forty years ago, when I started climbing, bolted free-climbs were not "fashionable". now they are. if you don't like the bolts, don't use 'em. its all about FUN, right? loosen up and have some (fun, I mean...) - if the routes aren't interesting enough or hard enough for you, try climbing them in alpine boots with a thirty-pound pack - preferably in a blizzard, and without the bolts, of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) if you don't like the bolts, don't use 'em. what a load of crap, IMO. You can't take a shit on the sidewalk, and then tell me to just walk around it. Just my $.02 Edited June 13, 2007 by robmcdan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 There are tons of bolted climbs that are too hard or too "bold" for me, and Peter_Puget is right, Perils of Pauline with NO bolts would be rather runout. I just thought it was strange for so many climbs in a trad area to featured bolted cracks. I'm not trying to get recognized Tony, I'm surely not the first person to notice this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Perils would be pretty bold without any bolts..if I remember correctly. As would Straight Street...if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 if you don't like the bolts, don't use 'em. what a load of crap, IMO. You can't take a sh*t on the sidewalk, and then tell me to just walk around it. Very well stated! (especially a public sidewalk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Respect their views, put up your own routes and I'm sure they will respect yours. That's some nice happy My Little Pony shit, but the truth is that many of the 11worth rap bolters and pad people don't respect the climbs and routes put up by climbers from prior generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That's some nice happy My Little Pony shit, but the truth is that many of the 11worth rap bolters and pad people don't respect the climbs and routes put up by climbers from prior generations. I'm not sure that statement couldn't apply to virtually every "generation" of climbers since about the time of the first ascent of Mont Blanc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 if you don't like the bolts, don't use 'em. its all about FUN, right? Wrong. Climbing is LIKE fun. But different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHarry Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I'm not sure that statement couldn't apply to virtually every "generation" of climbers since about the time of the first ascent of Mont Blanc. So you agree with me then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Perils would be pretty bold without any bolts..if I remember correctly. As would Straight Street...if I remember correctly. No. there is a splitter crack full of dirt and bushes up the middle of the lower slab. There are a couple of places cleared for holds. Up higher the crack in the dihedral peters out for about 10 feet, then comes back at fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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