Kong GiGi or Petzl Reverso?

[MountaingirlBC]

Figured this was a good place to ask for opinions Primary use would be for CR.

[crackers]

plaquette magique.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Figured this was a good place to ask for opinions Primary use would be for CR.

 

???

Climbing and Rapelling = CR

[MountaingirlBC]

instead of an atc for self tending. seems to work better.

Edited April 24, 2006 by MountaingirlBC

[Weekend_Climberz]

I've been using the Reverso recently, solely for it's auto-locking feature for belaying two at a time. Otherwise, I still will use my old Cassin stitch-plate.

[kurthicks]

for crevasse rescue, i just use a Prussik minding pulley (PMP) at the anchor. if you want something better suited to year round use, get a BD ATC-Guide.

[111]

Screw 'em all! Get the BD guide.

[MountaingirlBC]

Yeah, I have to admit that is pretty sweet. One of my climbing partners just got it. I ended up buying a GiGi for now simply because it was on sale

[larrythellama]

all of those belay devices create complacency and should not be used. unless you are 100% on your anchors you are leading yourself into potential trouble.

[layton]

An ATC AND a Gi-Gi in my opinion, is the best possible alpine setup. No fuss at the anchor, pull your partner up he/she doesn't have to clip in. have em fuck with the rack while you put em on the ATC, take em off the Gi-Gi when they are ready to go. Saves minutes per pitch and de-clusters the belay.

[G-spotter]

Before the Reversos came out, I bought a GiGi cause Guy told me they were cool. I think I used it once. I still have it though! But overall I have found the GiGi to be GayGay b/c you can't belay a leader with it. Weight wise two belay devices each is a no no.

[layton]

oh yeah, i'm totally being held back by that exra ounce. Plus you've got an extra device in case you drop yours for rappin n' stuff.

[G-spotter]

Angle piton brake bar

[cdurf]

I see too many people with too much wear on their reversos. I have a GiGi and when my rope is iced up I'll rap with it (use extra beaner if I need more friction).

 

I think I will go with the ATC guide if I lose mine. Handles small diameter ropes nice I hear.

[whidbey]

BD Guide.. It's the shit and the others only wish..

[Collin]

Someone pointed out to me how the reverso wears to a knife blade edge. I looked mine over and it is getting pretty sharp. I checked my friends out and you could cut a tomoto with its edge. It does work great as an autoblocker though.

[chris]

I'm on my third Reverso. It is pretty sweet thought, and for a while was the only one of its kind. I'm getting ready to purchase an BD ATC Guide, and will try to post a review of it towards the end of the summer...

[TrogdortheBurninator]

Aside from the weight, the new BD is better than the Reverso or B52 (never used GiGi) in every way IMO. It feeds awesome, has two friction modes, autoblocks smoothly, and supposedly can be released. I am very impressed.

[kurthicks]

more importantly, the atc-guide does not develop a sharp edge from "standard" usage like the reverso does.

 

trog - both the reverso and guide are releaseable as is the b-52 and other autoblocking devices. the BD just looks easier since it has that silly little loop in the bottom...that's not large enough for a biner or most stoppers.

[Fuggedaboudit]

I have used both Gi-Gi and Reversino (smaller ropes). Use them for ice climbing with 8mm ropes. I personally prefer the Gi-Gi, it is smoother for autolocking the second(s)than the Reversino, esp when the ropes ice up. As for rapping the Gi-Gi is far superior, works great again when your ropes are a bit wet and frozen.

 

With the Gi-Gi (as you all know already) you have to remember to flip it one way for belaying second and another for rapping. If you are afraid youll screw this up just spraypaint one side a different color.

 

Finally I have had more than one climbing partner tell me I was "on belay" with reversino only to check it and find out he had put the ropes in backward (brake hand over the sharp side and ropes to me over the smooth side)which you cant do with ATC or other devices that belay leaders.

 

Old style ATC plus Gi-Gi weighs about the same as the ATC Guide.

 

[chris]

I just really like having one belay/rappel tool that does it all, and I'm willing to put up with a little rougher handling to have it.

[dylan_taylor]

I used to use the GiGi, but gave it up. Too specialized. The reverso and BD guide are much better for most of us.

 

For a while, I always thought that the two biggest problems with the reverso were the tendency to form a sharp edge, and the relative lack of friction when belaying or rapelling on the new "standard" of skinnier ropes. Fortunately, if the reverso is used right, the two problems cancel each other out.

 

If you rappel with the reverso "reversed", you get more friction, and you will either a)not develop a sharp edge or b) round out an existing sharp edge.

 

The sharp edge frightened me for awhile, but in reality it never seems to have a highly tensioned rope over it except for in rare cases (such as pre-rigging a client with an old, sharp reverso above several other clients and/or a guide).

 

I have used the BD guide device, and though I like it for some things, i don't like it for others. With its teeth, it handles skinnier rope belaying and rappeling a little better than the reverso (however, i have not used the latest generation reverso, with teeth and more taper included). But even with its gimicky release hole, meant to have a piece of cord or webbing girthed to it for releasing in autolock mode, I thought the Reverso was far smoother and easier to operate.

 

A guiding colleague of mine tests gear for part of his livelyhood. He tested the reverso in a situation where a loaded rope with 4-8kN is wrapped over the sharp edge (in a pre-rig scenrio as mentioned above). Here are the details:

 

"Dylan and I made a stink about Tom's Reverso being so

sharp when we saw it on the exam (at the top of a

rappel). He had been using it a lot at his local

sandstone crag and honed a couple of really sharp

edges (see photo). I traded Tom out for a new Reverso

and took his home with me. I pull tested it a couple

of days ago.

 

Three tests were done: The device was placed in rappel orientation for all

tests. A Sterling 10.5 mm dynamic rope was used in the

first two tests on the side with the most damage.

Both times the failure occurred where expected, at the

sharp edge of the Reverso. What wasn't expected is

that it failed at 2424.5 lbF (10.8 kN)! Dylan and I

would have to gain some serious weight to have Tom's

Reverso do much damage, and we were the heavy weights

in the exam. Sheesh.

 

The other test was done (same orientation) on the side

with the least amount of damage with a new single

8.8mm dynamic double rope. It didn't fail after

pulling 48", but started to have some sheath damage at

1941 lbF (8.6 kN). I thionk it would have taken much

much more to fail it.

 

The other interresting thing that was observed is that

the sharp edges of aluminum were rolled over after

pull testing, much like what happens to a really sharp

knife blade when cutting on a hard surface."

 

Obviously, the sample size is small, only two ropes were used. A photo of the test reverso is included.

DT

[Luv2Kayak]

Could a problem with this have resulted in what looked like a "cut" rope found on Mt. Hood, in the search for "Fuggedaboudit" and his two partners?

 

 

[billcoe]

 

Wow, most interesting thread revival luv2 kayak. Given the extreeme weather those 3 must have been facing, who will ever know.

 

I do find this interesting:

 

The other test was done (same orientation) on the side

with the least amount of damage with a new single

8.8mm dynamic double rope. It didn't fail after

pulling 48", but started to have some sheath damage at

1941 lbF (8.6 kN). I thionk it would have taken much

much more to fail it.

 

Rock and Ice did some test recently that showed you can easily develop 1300 lbs force on a short Toproping fall. I think if I had an Older rope, and an older Reverso.....well, it's pretty sketch if your not paying attention to your gear. Be interesting to see what happens in 3 or 4 years as some of these ultra thin single lines get old.

[catbirdseat]

I just bought at BD Guide belay device to replace a Trango B-52 that had worn to the point where I felt it wasn't safe anymore. I wanted a device that would handle both fat and skinny ropes and which would allow belaying of two seconds (or one) in the autoblock mode, or "guide mode" as BD terms it.

 

One of the shortcomings of the B-52 was that to belay two seconds one needed to hang the device from two carabiners. This redundancy was needed so that the device would hang straight. It doesn't have a dedicated eye for that purpose.

 

This weekend I used the Guide to belay and rappel on a pair of 8.6 mm half ropes, for which it performed just fine, although not as smoothly as the B-52. It has plenty of friction in the "low friction mode" for single ropes. One would only ever want to use the high friction mode for skinny ropes or ones that are iced up.

 

Using a 10.5 mm single, I decided I wanted to belay off the anchor. Normally I might have used a Munter Hitch, but I was standing off to the side of the direction of pull, so I thought I'd use the Guide in autoblock mode. To my surprise, I could not pull the rope in. There was way too much friction! It was hopeless. I gave up and went back to the Munter Hitch.

 

I have yet to try autoblock mode with the 8.6 mm ropes. I'm expecting much less friction. It seems to work in living room tests.

 

There still doesn't seem to be any one device that does everything perfectly. Some are better than others for certain tasks.