Outer Space? HOw honest is the rating?

[selkirk]

I'm interested in taking a shot at Outer Space latter this year and was wondering about the 5.9 traverse pitch? How honest is the rating? I've read a few different guidebooks and they all rate the climb 5.9. However what little (awkward crack with bad feet?)... So.... for thos who've climbed it, what do you think?

[DPS]

It is easier than Godzilla.

[eric8]

at I 5.9 wouldn't call it sandbag at all, just 5.9 climbing that relativly straight forward. I always find the technical crux to be the finger crack at the top, which you can bipass.

[mattp]

I think the start of the pitch is harder than the "crux." It is a wide hands/flared offwidth kind of thing over a little bulge.

 

Either way, it is not a fearsome lead. You can completely sew it up. In fact, the biggest problem people have with the pitch is that they put in too much gear and cause rope drag. Try not to put pro very high on the part below, or consider back-cleaning, before you go around the corner onto the diagonal traverse.

 

I think Eric8 is referring to the thin finger crack three pitches above, and I agree that it is probably harder than the "stated" crux, though you can bypass it as he notes.

[willstrickland]

I've done the route exactly once, last fall. My impressions were:

 

5.9? Yeah, but nothing sustained on it and and it's well protected. There are 3 "cruxes" I remember and they are all very short, like a move or two.

 

The traverse is trivial. There is maybe one move where you have less than stellar feet and it's short. There is a harder move on that pitch before you reach the traverse if you climb straight up the crack (I guess you could go a little left there and it's easier?).

 

I thought the little fingercrack right off the belay starting one of the headwall pitches was probably the crux.

 

The rating is not sandbagged IMO. Just be comfortable running it out on 5.6/5.7ish hand cracks or take extra hand sized cams for the headwall pitches.

 

Go for it, it's a fun route

[foraker]

The 5.9 pitch is mostly psychological I think. Just the huge exposure.

[Peter_Puget]

What do you mean by “honest?” Do you think some ratings are purposefully incorrect? It seems that ratings are such imprecise creatures that we should expect a wide range of experiences for a given rating.

[mattp]

True that, and in some ways I'd say Orbit is a "harder" climb than Outer Space.

[chucK]

Since the "crux" is a traverse above overhanging terrain also consider the ability of your second.

 

And what about that move topping out onto the pedestal? That one seems like it should be easier but it always sketches me out a little (sneaks up on you). That's probably the place where that guy who died last year initially fell and hurt himself (i.e. be sure to sew that part up).

[selkirk]

by "honest" I guess I mean is it something a solid (on a variety of terrains) 5.9 trad climber could lead safely and cleanly. Not necessarily comfortably, but at least confidantly, beyond 5.8 but not yet 5.10. (Most people would agree it's neither sandbagged nor soft) etc etc. No I don't think they're purposefully incorrect, but at the same time how a rating feels is dependant on what a climbers abilities are.

 

"IF" I were putting up new routes anything slabby I put would likely recieve "honest" or slightly sandbagged ratings, while anything overhanging would probably be soft. No dishonesty, but i'm much more comfortable making thin, less than vertical face moves, than juggy overhangs.

 

Of course I would expect a range of difficulties, and in the end all ratings are subjective both to local standards, and to the type of terrain your most comfortable on.

 

but... according to local standards... is it honest?

say, harder than 5.8 (Dogleg, The Arch, Spaghetti, Sauce), but easier than 5.10 (Air Guitar, George and Martha, Bo Derek) etc.

[J_Kirby]

I found the traverse to be the hardest part of that climb. The size of the crack, the exposure and rope drag probably added greatly to that feeling. The higher crux was easily worked around and seemed easier to me. I don't climb 5.9 cracks with any regularity, though, so I'd listen to those with more experience at the grade.

[selkirk]

and the 2nd i'd likely browbeat into coming would be fine I think. (leading 5.8/5.9 bolts, and 5.8 trad all clean but ready to lead a little harder, following 5.10a/b (d at exit 38 ) bolts and trad mostly clean. Occasional hang on sustained strenuous 10ish stuff)

[mec]

So how can you bypass that thin finger crack on the last main headwall pitch? I always found that move to be the hardest, plus the exposure is great stepping off of library ledge.

 

The traverse is not too bad, I remember stretching out a bit to find some decent feet. Then you go and it is over with. 5.9 for the route as a whole is relatively honest. People who don't lead much 5.9, will be freaked out in a few spots, but can sew them up.

 

I agree with Strickland, be prepared to runout those 5.6/5.7 handcracks. They are a blast. You can sew them up, but if you do, you are bringing in way too much big gear.

[Rad]

Anyone been on the Snow Creek Wall lately? Is it dry? I was thinking about heading out there in the next few days. Does it stay pretty dry on "chance of showers" days? Is Orbit really harder than Outer Space? Thanks.

 

You can bypass the upper Outer Space finger crack by climbing knobs on the face to the left. Then again, it's such an aesthetic, well-protected crack you should just go for it.

 

I also found the lower, vertical part of the 'crux' pitch to be harder than the traverse. The first traverse move is just mental, not hard at all. Farther out, the traverse has great jams, tons of gear spots, and decent foot friction.

 

Perhaps the crux is hanging your stash somewhere that the goats can't get to it. Dang varmints!

[slothrop]

Looks like everyone's chiming in on this one

 

I'd say Orbit's harder than Outer Space. There's a chimney on Orbit, which some folks aren't used to. Then the transition move between the two face cracks on p3(?) is pretty interesting. The face climbing on the next pitch is exposed and intimidating, too, with rusty quarter-inchers.

 

You gotta climb that finger crack on OS! Cool exposure and easily protected with nuts at the start. I agree with chucK that the pedestal move is worth putting in two pieces for if you're at all concerned about it. It's a long runout before you get there...

[Alpinfox]

Anyone been on the Snow Creek Wall lately?

 

It looked dry on Sunday from Pearly Gates.

 

Is Orbit really harder than Outer Space?

It's certainly more awkward (chimney moves at beginning of p1) and more runout (changing corners pitch). A pink tricam is nice for that section. You'll see where to put it.

 

You can bypass the upper Outer Space finger crack by climbing knobs on the face to the left. Then again, it's such an aesthetic, well-protected crack you should just go for it.

 

Correction. I believe most people bypass the thin crack by climbing to the RIGHT of the crack for a few moves (there is a nice big knob to stand on) and then heading back left into the crack. It's well protected, but you are above a ledge, so you gotta think about that.

[sobo]

I'd agree with mattp and willstrickland. The traverse pitch requires you to really think about where you place your pro before turning the corner, be conscious of potential rope drag by placing too much pro across the traverse, and back-cleaning could be advisable (altho I've never done it there). The hand crack sucks up pro (and your hands), and the flake is fine for your feet, it's just the exposure that pyschs people out. The last few times I've been up there, it appears that the start of the traverse has gotten really "greasy" with the passage of thousands... anybody else notice this?

 

The finger crack right off Library Ledge is indeed stellar. Don't bypass it.

[Dru]

I thought Orbit was much easier than OS

[layton]

SCW was bone dry on sunday. Look out for the horde of goats protecting the base.

[E-rock]

Selkirk,

The short answer is that Outer Space is the perfect route for a 5.9 leader who has not yet broken into 5.10. You will be challenged, but you will succeed.

[telemarker]

I agree with chucK that the pedestal move is worth putting in two pieces for if you're at all concerned about it. It's a long runout before you get there...

 

Better is to clip the pin at teh base of the pedestal, then bypass it down low by traversing around it on hollow flakes, but easy climbing. That way, you avoid the short pain in the ass "pitch" from the top of the pedestal to the base of the headwall crack. Much quicker and less rope drag too.

[gyselinck]

SCW was bone dry on sunday. Look out for the horde of goats protecting the base.

 

SCW has been bone dry almost all winter.

[mec]

Better is to clip the pin at teh base of the pedestal, then bypass it down low by traversing around it on hollow flakes, but easy climbing. That way, you avoid the short pain in the ass "pitch" from the top of the pedestal to the base of the headwall crack. Much quicker and less rope drag too.

 

I remember there being a single bolt at the top of the pedestal. I have used this with a short draw to direct the rope and finish the pitch at the base of the headwall. It does add a bit of rope drag, but I have never found it to be too bad.

[matt_warfield]

Here's my take on the rating.

 

Traverse pitch start is 5.9 (RH layback) or 5.8 (LH crack) and traverse itself is 5.9 to start and then easier. As has been reported, take care to avoid rope drag. Next pitch is widely reported as easy but actually is runout 5.6 to 5.8 at the pedestal. First crack pitch is not hard. Second crack pitch starts with a bulge and I think has the hardest moves of the climb at 5.9. One can avoid the start by climbing left in the corner or right on knobs but don't bother as pro is great and moves are sweet on the crack.

 

All 5.9 is short and well protected. The route is long and can be crowded so have multipitch tactics down. And the real crux for some is the descent: make sure you have some energy and light left for it.

 

This route is a classic- go get it!

[catbirdseat]

In my opinion the traverse was way hard and everything else, including the finger crack was easy. I must have been having brain fade or something on the traverse. The traverse felt like 5.10+. The last moves to the belay on that pitch are an honest 5.9.