eternalX Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Why don't they use grigris? Seems like they could get more beginners involved if they did. The whole waiting 24 hours would turn a lot of people off. Or are they just trynig to get people to sign up for a class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa_Eagle Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 waiting 24 hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Must be failed belay test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonb Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 No Grigri's?? VW uses Grigri's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalX Posted September 6, 2003 Author Share Posted September 6, 2003 yea...you have to get instruction on how to belay, which they won't do for free, and then take a test 24 hours later. This was at Stone Gardens. Â In phoenix, they make you watch a 15 min DVD and then supervise the first few climbs. Afterwards, you're good to go. Seems like that would be the way to go for newbies. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtngrrrl Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 You don't have to get instruction on how to belay if you already know how. What's the big deal? Learn how to belay, then pass the test. It's not rocket science. Â Ever seen someone come whizzing to the ground from a bad belay? Ever seen anyone half way up a wall when their rope floats away because they weren't actually tied in correctly? Ever seen them fall to the ground, bloody and injured? Ever seen anyone's harness come undone because no one checked to see if it was double backed? Ever seen a grigri loaded backwards? I bet everyone who has worked in a gym has seen a variety of incidents to make them more than wary. Good to go after watching a 15 minute video? Hardly. I don't blame the gyms for having the belay checks. Accidents happen. They're just trying to protect themselves... and you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalX Posted September 6, 2003 Author Share Posted September 6, 2003 I'll tell you why it blows: Â Let's say you've never been climbing before and you're sitting around on a rainy saturday thinking "Hrm. I want to try this rock climbing thing. I'll check out Stone Gardens." So you grab your shite, a friend, and head down to the gym. You ask what you need to do and the reply is, take a class. So great, those classes are only available at 7pm M-S and it's now 2pm. On top of that, it's 45 bucks. So much for an inexpensive way to spend the day. So you leave. Will you ever come back? Maybe. I bet a lot of people don't though. And that's a shame because until you climb a few routes, you won't understand the joy of climbing. Â I would think as a business owner, you'd want to get as many people in your gym as possible. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Assuming you're a climber, why do you care? Don't you know how to belay? Any employee can give you a test, and you're done in 2minutes. No biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr666 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I am glad that they don't Gri-Gris are not a bely device that people should learn on. I think they are great for some situations, but they really teach poor belay habits. Then the beginners go to buy their gear and can't afford one, and end up with an ATC, and then they head out to the crag, and the bad habits are there. Not paying attention, not holding the brake hand the whole time. I've seen this too often with new climbers... Gri-Gri's are great, but everyone should learn how to belay on a non-auto device... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Belay tests take 2 minutes and are done on an ATC. Â As for the instruction thing, I've seen climbers that take a new girlfriend/boyfriend into the gym that has never climbed before- they try give them a sneak 2 minute crash course in belaying over by the water fountain or bathroom. They then expect the new boyfriend/girlfriend to take the belay check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 If you're bored on a rainy Saturday and looking to learn how to rock climb, perhaps it's best to go to the gym and boulder until you get tired (probably about 15 minutes if you've never done it before). Keep doing that until you can make it across the room without pumping out. Then, I would think, it would be more enjoyable once you get on the ropes, since you can climb more than just the two 5.6s. In the meantime, check out FotH from the local library and learn the mechanics of the belay using a shoestring or whatever  It's definitely in the business owner's best interest to reduce the number of accidents in their gyms. Insurance at those places, I imagine, is pretty expensive, and gym owners can probably implement certain policies to lower their premiums.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I can't speak for Stone Gardens, but at VW: 1. As long as you pass the ATC test, they will show you how to work with a Gri-Gri. You only need to have prior experience with an ATC or other tube belay device. They use an ATC to test because it is the most common in the climbing community. 2. All of the Gri-Gri's in VW are rigged to floor anchors and pre threaded. Instruction during your belay test and ample signage about the gym say that only gym staff should re-thread the Gri-Gri, preventing someone from screwing up. There you have it as best as I know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 It's going to be nice on Saturday. Grab a friend who climbs and go to Marymoor Park and have him show you how to belay. An afternoon at the rock would be great, especially if the sun is out and the ladies show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalX Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 I stand corrected. I went to VW and they do use grigris. I think their setup is much better then the Stone Gardens place for beginners. The people at VW were much more friendly as well. Â However, the Stone Gardens bouldering area is so much bigger. I think my roommate are going to get a family membership there. Â Also, I agree with the comments about starting with bouldering. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtngrrrl Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Huh, I thought you had to be a "domestic partnership" couple to get a family membership not just housemates, but good luck! Â Glad you figured out a way to start over and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 mtngrrrl said: Huh, I thought you had to be a "domestic partnership" couple to get a family membership not just housemates, but good luck! Â You can get a family rate for any group of people at Stone Gardens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Last week at Stone Gossard Gardens my little bro failed his belay test (he was didn't thread the rope through right on his tie up and didn't loop back the harness as well). He hasn't roped up before, even in a gym. I tried to teach him right before, but I think he was just too nervous. As the person he was going to be belay, I'm glad...and I think he'll remember next time to do it right. SG gave him a free pass ($14) and we had a blast just bouldering, which doesn't require a belay merit badge. He'll pass it next time, and I think that is a fair policy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 AlpineK said: mtngrrrl said: Huh, I thought you had to be a "domestic partnership" couple to get a family membership not just housemates, but good luck! Â You can get a family rate for any group of people at Stone Gardens. Â I asked Stone Gardens about this the other day and was told that you had to show some kind of proof that you live at the same address with your "family members", like a bill or license or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 When I used to the tests at cascade crags, I would always be surprised at the amount of people that had no right taking the test, even when they said "I used to climb alot a few years ago"......... What total bullshit. Either you did or you did not. You dont forget how to belay. Â CC does it the same way, they make you wait to take the test until the next day, send you home with review material, and let you boulder the remainder of the night after the class, and you get a free week pass that comes with the $40 class. Good deal IMO. Only if you live up in the northern territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 This is a pretty interesting thread... Â I worked at VW for 3 years while living in Seattle. I really enjoyed it, yeah a gym is a gym is a gym...but I met alot of great people working there and they became my friends, and that made me want to remain a proffesional gym rat. Â Before I got a job there I went to the VW in Redmond with a friend of mine, she had never climbed before. I thought I could teach her to belay real quick beforehand and slip her in with my wifes belay card. She used the Gri-Gri pretty well for the first few climbs, then on the 4th or so...she dropped me. Straight to the deck. I cracked my heel bone. I don't know if any of you has ever cracked your heel, but it sucks...big time. I limped around with a cane for two months, right before an expedition to Nepal. Shitty way to train. Anyway, I learned something vaulable that day, never take belaying for granted. Â While working at VW Seattle,I gave hunderds of belay tests to all walks of life, from 6 and 7th graders, to girlfriends under preasure by lurking boyfriend, to oldschool mt dude with EB's who insists on using a hip belay, to poor nice folks who god bless them...wear velcro shoes because they couldn't tie a knot to save their life...the whole spectrum, including sponsored magazine hard men and women such as Lynn Hill and steve House. Ok, my boss gave Lynn the belay test... Â Anyway, I guess my point is, I allways tried to treat everyone equaly, with respect, but also assuming they didn't know their head from their ass about belaying. This would infuriate some people who thought they were to good to be treated like a newbie, but I didn't care. If you favor one person another will complain. Almost allways, those who got the most angry had the worst belay technique. Â Some peole would say "why can't you just teah me real quick?" and sometimes I would make slight exeptions, but go into VW on a busy thursday night and watch the poor bastard giving belay checks for a while, teaching the gri-gri is about the max one can do. Â What also suprised me was how nervous some people got during the test, people shaking, talking non-stop, crying, you name it...men and women. You had to be pretty sensitive to this and not be intimidating, which is hard while trying to be proffesional and tell someone that they did not pass. Â VW folks are pretty strict and this is a good thing. You only need to see one accident in the gym in order to appreciate this. Gyms that are slack on belay tests only do their costomers a dis-service, one that could be fatal. This was my perspective at least. Â Sorry, but I have more to say... Teaching the begginer rock course was my favorite thing to do at the gym. To take someone who doesn't know a leg loop from a waist belt, or someone who is totaly afraid of heights, teach them the ropes and put them at the drivers seat with their friends life in their hands is an amazing and rewarding thing. I fed off of the satisfaction that people got from their accomplishments in this class. If some new comer to climbing thinks that $40 is too much to spend for an experience like this, they are only cheating themselves. Â To answer some of the questions about waiting a day after to get belay checked. At VW, if the instructor feels confident in their students, they are allowed to belay after the class. Then they get a red card that is a free pass for the week(worth more than $40), they can practice belaying, but at some point during that week they need to take the test to get a card. Â Otherwise you have someone get a belay card the same day of the class, not climb for a year, and come back with a card that says they are proficient at belaying...obviously an accident waiting to happen. Â Last but not least, when mtngrrrl says that belay tests are to protect YOU, she is absolutely right. Almost every accident or near miss that I witnessed involved someone getting dropped on someonelses head. Â Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 scot'teryx said: When I used to the tests at cascade crags, I would always be surprised at the amount of people that had no right taking the test... Â Everyone (with at least some belaying experience) has the right to take the test Scott, it's up to you to decide who has the privilage to pass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 ya know what he meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Damn, posted in wrong thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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