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One pair alpine skis, one pair AT skis gone.

At least for wildland fire applications, I think the use is pretty limited. THey aren't going to work in anything remotely hilly, and the only flat stuff that could really use 24k gallons is flat, worthless sage and grass not worth the cost of the application. But I bet it'd be pretty fucking cool to call in and watch!

Rumor is that two people on a fire crew got a little frisky w/o thinking about the previous day's oak exposure.

Tec Lab's Web Page High marks to Tec Labs for their Tecnu wash. This stuff really works! If you find you're reactive to it, it's well worth your money.

http://www.wheeled-locusts.org/ . Love the name. My opinion: ^ this guy's bogus, but I'd still agree that bike areas are more degraded (and in the end that's what counts.) I also think Galibraith in b'ham is a pretty good example of biker's getting some free land use. Maybe we could consider mtb parks in agency managed areas as mitigation for other recreation impacts. Or Smoky key give-a-ways.

Don't bother ubless you live in Blushastin.

Thanks dave. Powerful. I think the pictures reminded me of what these people and their families have lost. Outside of the pro/anit wart debate, I think it's good to step back and reflect on loosing human life, and say a prayer for these people.

bc rails to trails messed up and tressle on fire

AK. That place is powerful, and not nescessarily in a pleasant way (although I very much enjoyed being there.) When I drove across the tok river between Tok and Delta for the first time, my jaw dropped. I'd never seen such a HUGE river. HUGE. And it was over and over like that: nature in bold face. The expanses of uninterupted black spruce and marshy grassland. Highways that when on for long stretches w/o any (ok, VERY little) development. (Then to think about western AK... that place must be really remote!) Anyways, it's somewhat imposing. I didn't really feel totally at ease there, I think in part, due to how raw the places is. But it felt cool to be out of place, I really appreciated the immensity of it. http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Alaska/SouthCentralAlaska/GlennHighway/MatanuskaBraided.html http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Alaska/SoutheasternAlaska/Hyder/HyderCauseway.html http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Alaska/AlaskaInterior/ParksHighway/ParksHwyNenanaRiver.html

From Planetfear.com: This puts some perspective on the MtRainier speed skuffly.

Will be in PNW and would like to get in some cragging. Anything would be good but some ideas I've had: **** Sam Hill in Icicle canyon, **** those high-up crags approached from the mouth of the Tumwater (retardant rock?) Maybe a little cold and snowy? **** Peshastin if it's cold **** Middle East Wall at Vantage if it's hot. Never climbed there but there's something got to be something reasonable there. Contact me via pm, email (grouchous_rex_at_yahoo.com), or phone 303.818.8568. dave

I'm not sure if it was in the book mentioned here or somewhere else, but there was mention of a person flying from LAX to Tahoe (around 6K?) for some golfing and getting hit hard enough to require medical treatment. Golfers. Wooses.

I've got some tings to share, but I should preface them by sayibng these are just bits I've picked up here and there. I'm far from an expert. 1. The statement "walk down hill" is not just being conservative. I've been told by a climber/doctor in Bellinham that the only cure (remedy the problem) for altitude sickness is descent/hyperbaric chamber. Obviously in the cascades you can ususally push throught the symptoms long enough to summit, THEN descend and feel better, but for higher stuff, once the real symptoms kick in, they probably won't go away w/o descent (again, MINOR symptoms might take care of themselves) 2. Medicines are useful for temporary relief from symptoms, but don't do much as a cure. In the cascades and CO, I've used ibu and tums w/ reasonable sucsess, but maybe I've just been dealing w/ upset stomache from a double order of eggs and bacon followed by high excertion, not as much alt. sickness. A friend reported reasonable sucsess with coca leaves in Ecuador, and I've heard (as metioned above) of others using cocaine w/ sucsess. I've been told (b'ham doc) that diamox is useful as a temporary rellief unitl your able to decesnd, but shoundn't be used to extend your range. Finally, as an aid to maintaining hydration/"clean" blood, a himilayan tour guide told me green and black tea in large quantities does good at simultainiously hydrating/ flushing toxins. 3. Prevention is major issue. I'm sure you know this but it seems worth emphasizing that rest before and during a climb combined with full hydration and good nutrition are more important than any drugs you can bring with you. I say this because I've found myself leaving for trips right after school, snacking on doritos and pepsi on the way, approaching into the night, then getting hammered the next morning. If I'd been able to/thought to get rest before, eat a solid meal, and drink plenty of water, I'd have been in much better shape. So I don't mean to come off as an expert by any means. This is just a collection of info I have/ a spring board for further discussion.

It probably sounds stupid, but I didn't realize it until I experienced it: Climbing higher grades is simply harder. I hung out at the 5.9 range for quite a while, and when Ifinally started leading 10's consistently, I was amazed at how much harder the climbing was! Duh! But the point is that the step from 5.8 to 5.9 was mostly nerves and confidence, whereas the step up to 5.10 was more an issue of conscously working/pulling harder. I found myself in more situation of "I don't think I can do this" followed by doing something hard and sucseeding.Probably not useful to you, but just an experience of mine. By the way, nice thread.

Here's another quesiton for anyone who has a freedom of the hills book. I was farting around and htink I found an answer to some problems I've had with long runners in general: First problem is that I look down and my biner is sitting perfectly sidways (crossloaded) on my long runner! Yech! I don't want to fall on that (especially since they're wiregates!) The second grumbling is that when I shorten them inot draws by passing one biner through the other, then clipping the other end (ok a terrible explaation, but if I siad folding in triple, you'de know what I meant, right?), the biner gets a muddled up and occationallt this turns into a mess when trying to one handed, off sided clip gear while resisitng fear... One soluton I saw was to clip each biner through a half hitch-type knot on each end. What's that knot called thats sup[posed to be good for tying off pins? Anyways, I figured out how to adjust it so both biners are snug and not flopping around, and it's easy to undo the whole thing to turn it into a plain runner and biner setup (as oppsed ot the tape wrapped around the sling at the biner, which is hard to undo, and even harder to pt back together after undoing.) so any comments on this method and anyone with FOTH want to look up that strength reduction factor for me?

This is contrary to what most of the others above have said. I'm sure they really have had good luck with their or stuff, but I'll just put my experience out there as more data. Gaitor: I find the or gaitors to be super clunky. Way overkill for most applications. I have a pair of old no-name crumby gortex gaitors with zippers in the back (I know, everyone hates these...) but I take them over the ors just by wieght alone, not to mention avoiding the frankenstein walk the ors give me. of course, CO snow isn't quite like the PNW's. Mitts: hate 'em I've got the... shuksans? which are supposed to be ergo cut, but I find myself flapping at things like a walrus with them on... And relatively heavy. I guess a big thing here is application. Anything you might want to use you hands for anything besides a blunt weapon, go for something else. But I will say I had a pair of the basic mitts that (before they were stolen) held up really well cutting wood in the winter w/o getting torn up, and that's a pretty serious abrasion test. I will say OR is the only company I've seen that sells a tech glove shell alone, without any liner or insulation. I'd like to get my hands on a pair of these to try and get a fine tuned system down involving complicated liner/insulation rotations (joking), but I think they might have stopped selling them alone. I do like their windstopper fleece hats for the super cold. Brought a regular fleece type cap to fairbanks in Feb, but the next day bought a windstopper one cause the regular one just didn't cut it. Also, their fleece gloves seem reasonable.

1. Sorry. Seriously. That was little short of me (to say the least.) I've always loved the self-deprecating "I'm retared." 2. But I'll say I've now actually thought about the resoles I have had done. ALL have had some change in fit. (duh.) not so much size, but more "fit". But the distinction I think is interesting is the clunker kaukulator syles shoes I'v resoled have felt more comfortable, and the thin floppy guys have always felt looser. Ok, there could be some statistically significant factors: I resole the individual pairs of slipper like shoes more, so maybe the simple age of the shoe is becoming more of... shit. Duh. Side story. I had a pair of mytho that I'd resoled at least three times. I took them to that coble in B'ham on railroad, just to have him patch some tears..oh, the tongue. He fixed the tougne. But he told me the shoes were just Rotten. literally. And he wasn't joking. He thought it was gross. But regardless, I still think there's something to too tight of shoes going south sooner than reasonably fitted shoes. Also, I believe there is enough variation in foot size and strength over the course of a shoe's lifetime that the foot you started with is not the same as the foot you have when you go to replace the shoe. (big breath) Hence, the old shoes size is irrelavant, at least no more relevant than what you can figure out trying on new shoes.

No. You know what's retared? getting on people case for making a speculation (conclussion based on incomplete evidince for the purpose of discussion), then not giving any counterexample or counter argument. Thats retared. If you've got something constructive to say, I'm all ears.

considering the data that doolittle has brought us and the lack of ANY data (or solid physics, for that matter...) glaaskow has brought us, it seems like this issue is dead. Anyone have ANY data (or solid physics, and no, that crap above and in the other thread is just that: crap) to support this screamers = increased load? FYI: I wrote BD and asked them if they had any data and the person responing said something like "I haven't done any testing like that" and wouldn't comment any further. Yeah, they might seem like gimicks, but that's differnt than saying they increase loading. Also, the industrial applications of screamer-like devices should be considered. Engineers don't (usually) just do shit because it seems cool. Again, anyone have data or would like to put forward a solid argument against screamers?

Good call SR. I know some "locals" that enjoy making noise just to make the yuppy "Fucking 206'ers" squirm. (making no implications about any of you folks...) I enjoy the "multi-use" nature of vantage. Shot guns, Yakima artillery, climbers,... it's for eveyoes use. Obviously there's something to respecting other people's rights, but I'm not sure silence (or even quiet) is a inalieable "right". Creative solutions (warning: these might require YOU to do something, as oppsed to them...): 1. Ninja camping. There are tons of places to park and sleep discretely in the vantage area. Go down to the boat launch. Try near the mouth of echo basin. How about those pullouts 1/4 mile before the feathers (where they took that picture of the "wenatchee mtb club"? These aren't official spots, but that's why it's called ninja camping... it's an adventure. Just have your shit gathered early in the morning. The best way to avoid atention when ninja camping: no fire. No fire= no light = not noticed. Plus, you're reducing you impact (one drawback of n.c.) and you'll avoid the whole got-so-drunk-I-fell-in-the-fire problem. 2. Bring a case of beer and join them (remember, you're thinking creative here.) I bet you'll have a lot of fun! I've always enjoyed being able to walk up to someones camp, hand them a beer, find out what they've been climbing, and shot the shit. Hell, if they're making a bunch of nooise, they're half drunk and they'll be kick inthe pants. 3. A polite "Hey, how's it going? Can you keep it down" sometimes works on the most latenight offenders. Be straight forward, and if they're still dicks,... well, at least you were real with them. You did your part. 4. Sleep in the car. This will provide quite a bit of sound insulation, and plus, you can listen to Dr. Dean Odell on AM 560, KPQ! 5. Noisy night? Go for a hike. Being from cle elum and all you might not think it's that spectacular (you've seen it before...), but i know there are a lot of coasties out there that haven't taken the time to explore the mesa between middle east and sunshine wall, let alone the sand dunes, the river, the little lakes tucked behind Fug's wall, the plunge pool, the diomite pits.. the list goes on. And plus, you'll get back all tired, they'll be passed out, and everyone will have a good night's slepp and no feelings will be hurt. I think the thing to keep in mind (as I hinted at above) is some people don't think "quiet" is one of the basic rights, so don't assume they're offending you. They just have a differnt slant on things and it's down right arrogant to assume your way is the right way. Fuck, its vantage! Wild partiers have been at vantage a lot longer than the climbers!

Hey dude. I had lunch (sort of) with that wacko doug a few weeks ago. He's still crazy. Anyways, I'm not going to pretend to know anything about shoes, but I will make this speculation that you can chew on and make you own opinion: I wonder if there is any correlation between making your shoes stretch alot (i.e. buying them SUPER tight) and shoes wearing out sooner. In fact, I'll go one step further and speculate that if you buy shoes TOO small, not only will they be tight (duh) but also when you go to resole them and remove/alter the rubber, the leather will "expand" and the new application of rubber will leave you with a floppy fit. The leather gets streatched but is held snug by the rubber, but when you resole, the new rubber doesn't fit tight and the shoes turns to banana. Just a thought.

Which is: 1. $85 pass? 2. Mt. Cashmere lab? Your choice.

Not at all to discount what a.f. has said here... (this seems like pretty reasonable advice to me!) but you might be suprised how much the rocks and soil have been destablized. The roots grow between, crack, and hold onto boulders and soil, but then when they burn out, leave a balanced pile or rocks (that seem like they would have been jostled and stableized over the winter...). Just an observation of what I've seen. But like af said, it can't hurt to go for a hike!