max

yeah, that guy sucks.

So now I feel like a dumb-ass for missing a critical piece. Well, that's sort of an overstaement. But anyways, I see mtnguide's info and !ahh! crap. I can't try to put any of these pieces together bacause CRAP in the process of looking at the diagrams in the becky guide (obviously not very carefully, huh?) to write my post, I decided my book was trashed enough to warrant a rebinding and dropped it off today. Ironic. And annoying.

What I have to offer falls into two groups: the climbs and the fire. About the climbs. They look awesome! I can't provide any information about specific routes, but I can say the formations are spectacular and I don't think very many people go there (the use per area gradient between the enchantment basin and the slopes above ingalls with all these climbs must be pretty high!) Some pics: Looking NW straight at the SE side of the nightmare needles and McClellan Peak from the Navaho peak trail. Looking NE at the west side of the formation from near hardscrabble creek. Those spires are (fuzzy!) outragous, huh!? A similar view, except from somewhere between hardscrabble and crystal creeks, looking at the lower, more southern end of the formation You will also find some good photos at this guy's site, but not much about climbing if I remember correctly erics base camp Hiking up ingals creek trail is definately the way to go, but leaves you with a serious whack getting to the climbs (at least from what I could see...) It took about 3 hours from the trailhead to good camping and a fresh-cut saw line going right up the drainage one east of crystal! About the fire: WNF incident web page from that webpage: The photos from the USFS page don't really show how hot some of this area burned, but here's one from some of the most active burning (Smoky's a little pyro! ) The reason I say this is the fire produced a very irregular pattern of burn across the hillside and dramatically reduced the stability of the rocks and trees on the slope. I can't overstate how much shit was falling during AND AFTER the active burning ... Helicopter pilots could see debris slides from 2000 ft altitude and there was at least one movement of material while crews where there that made it to near the trail! The fire operation took down most of the hazardous trees near the trail, but even a short hike up the slope would lead into some big, precariously hanging snags.. yuck. And any approach (even those dropping down from the Enchantment basin will involve some of this steep, rocky, burned, unstable terrain. Also you'll note many of the likely approach routes would invole traveling up draws that debris will funnel into. It's been a wintersince then which would seem to help stabalize some of this crap, and ultimately it comes down to a personal judgement of the environemtnal hazards, but personally, I don't think it's a good time to go there. I don't find much pleasure in grunting uphill and wondering what's hanging above me. Waiting even one more year would significantly decreases these hazards. Why risk it when there are other sweet, very similar climbs the duolith and mole a mess of "remote" enchantment hike-and-climb spires Tokette wall hope that's helpful. dave

[geeking_out] My most used not is the "nul knot" thay looks like a straight piece of rope w/o any knot at all. I use it ALL THE TIME. Kind of like the ./ directory (note I never closed the [geeking_out]. I'm working on it.)

Right. I was just pointing out the serious stress on airframes used for fire, not to mention the thrashing many of these planes recieved during their (classified!) military tours.

another mine cleanup (Holden) No thanks...

BD: "Yeah, we're dedicated to the people. Liie, we're all a bunch of climbers. We don't make screamers 'cause they don't work *cough*bullshit!*cough*. Did I mentio nwe don't care about profit? We're to community oriented to care about profits." I'm all about companies being profit grubbing mother fuckers. I am. There's no other was it can happen in capitalism (without regulation, and that's even worse than mother fuckers). What pisses me off though is when they start acting cool. "Community" "Partners" "dedication to quality". Quality my ass. More like price point and market niche. And As I said, that doesn't bother me, just don't act otherwise. (I guess its just capitalism kicking it up a notch in pursuit of profits.)

Hey, sorry about that. I didn't mean to imply I took this pic and I should have credited you with the photo. I guess what struck me about this photo is that it's good evidence that wind slab is different than wind deposition. Speaking of wind deposition... megadunes of antarctica

Fixed wing and Helo fatalities for wildland fire operations (from http://www.airtanker.com/ on the memorial tab...) 1958 Joseph Anthony PBY 1958 Elliot Corbett 1958 Arnell Talbot PBY 1958 George Carey 1958 Stewart Kilgore PBY 1958 J. C. Brehm 1958 Geroge Jess 1958 Patrick Hendricks 1958 Donald Doughty 1958 Carl Milligan V-35 1958 Virgil Sanders 1958 William Archibald V-35 1958 LeRoy Englert 1960 Donald Ackers TBM 1962 Robert Hill N3N 1960 John Bowman B-25 1963 Dexter Booth Jr. TBM 1960 James Armstrong B-25 1963 Louis Leach F7F 1960 Charles Franco B-25 1963 James Mosely B26 1960 F.W. (Bill) Druehl TBM 1963 Charles Cline 1961 Charles Cochrane TBM 1963 Lester Liston 1961 Verd Beatty TBM 1963 Fredrick Childers 1961 Arthur Beall TBM 1963 Norman Yantze 1961 Bernard Evart F7F 1963 Robert Savaria P61 1961 Horold Hill B18 1963 John Trumbull 1961 Doyle Keeing PBY 1963 George R. Kunkel TBM 1961 Waldo John Hackman 1964 Lou Parker 1961 Render Matthews PBY 1966 John Hennessey AJ 1962 Alvin Walters TBM 1967 Paul Hanson B25 1962 Robert Christopherson F7F 1967 Donald Block 1962 Theodore Schueler 1968 Bob Morrison TBM 1962 William Chevrolt 1969 Dave Staudt PB4Y2 1962 Marice McFadden 1969 Wayne Garkie PB4Y2 1970 Don Campbell PBY 1975 Alford Adolph B17 1970 John Carter PBY 1975 Robert Rzyalinski B17 1970 Marcel Roberts TBM 1976 Don Goodman B26 1970 Ray Elgin B17T 1976 Ed Jinks B26 1970 John Bastian B17T 1976 Bill Sears S2 1970 Robert Holiday B17 1976 Larry Myers S2 1970 Mark Sloan B17 1977 Paul Bellville O2 1970 Robert Bloomfield B17 1977 Joe Holstein O2 1971 Dick Ranck TBM 1978 James Lippitt S2 1971 Harry Owens TBM 1978 Darwin Kern DC7 1972 David Poindexter B17 1978 John Turner DC7 1972 Wayne Waller B17 1978 Victor Mortan DC7 1973 Dick Rogers Bell 206 1978 Donald Baxter DC7 1974 Larry Mortinson PV2 1978 John Davis DC7 1974 Timothy Chittenden PV2 1979 Gayle Eaton S2 1974 John Fletcher B26 1979 Denny Conners C119 1974 George Stell PB4Y2 1979 Richard Ray C119 1974 Greg Stell PB4Y2 1979 Charles Colton B17 1974 Bill Benedict F7F 1979 Joe LeRoux B17 1974 Mike Fagen F7F 1979 Bob Masters B17 1974 Dick Miller F7F 1980 Clyde Alford DC4 1985 Bill Harnden PBY 1980 Don Letnes DC4 1986 Richard Boyd S2 1981 Lou Remsehner C119 1986 Clarence Lind S2 1981 Teddy Sveum C119 1987 Bill Berg C119 1981 Merton Jackson T34 1987 Stephen Harrell C119 1982 James Eakin S2 1987 Charles Peterson C119 1983 Bill Smothers B26 1987 Nathan Kolb P2V 1984 Ed Real S2 1987 Woodward Miller P2V 1984 Ted Bell S2 1987 Donn Johnson S2 1985 James Dunlap PBY 1988 Chuck Watkins BE-58P 1985 Tim Trudell PBY 1990 Ralph Glasgow P2V 1995 Lisa Nitsch DC4 1990 Stephen Bovey P2V 1995 Mike Smith BE-58P 1991 John Sieglinger P3 1995 Robert Hollins Hughes 369D 1991 Robert Shaw P3 1996 Lee Sunderstrom Dromader 18A 1991 Henry Kim BE-58P 1997 John Hirth PV2 1992 Chuck Sheridan DC7 1997 William Babka PV2 1992 Leonard Martin DC7 1997 David Kyle OV10 1992 Roger Stark S2 1997 Floyd Hiser Bell 206 1994 Bob Buc C130 1998 Duane Williams CH54 1994 Joe Johnson C130 1998 George Converse CH54 1994 Shawn Zaremba C130 1998 Jose Castillo CH54 1994 Bob Kelly P2V 1998 J. D. Donahue P2V 1994 Randy Lynn P2V 1998 Chuck Key P2V 1995 Gary Cockrell DC4 1998 Gary Nagel S2 2000 Carl Payne AT802 2000 Kip Krigbaum Vertol KV-107 2000 Sam Tobias 337 2002 Steve Wass C130 2000 Leo W. Koponen 337 2002 Craig LaBare C130 2000 Lester Shadrick Bell 412 2002 Mike Davis C130 2000 David Newman UH1H 2002 Rick Schwartz PB4Y2 2000 Mike Fossett UH1H 2002 Milt Stollak PB4Y2 2001 Doug Gilbert Thrush S-2R 2002 Leonard G. Knight Aerospatiale Lama 2001 Larry Groff S2 2003 Carl Dolbeare P2V-7 2001 Lars Stratte S2 2003 John Attardo P2V-7 2001 Richard Hernandez Vertol KV-107 2001 Santi Arouitx Vertol KV-107 If this is crap, it's not just internet crap. I saw this photo published in .... "Fire Management" (?) page with CBS video footage of catastophic wing failure mid-flight (try the link in lower right under multimedia tab..) and another crash in CO from the same year (if I remember correctly...) of a PBY: These planes are just pushed to the limit ALL the time. There are no "milk runs" here. 200ft off the deck at 150+ knots, full payloads, turbulent air, always new terrain, and other air resources buzzing around. Dangerous!

oh, I just think it's funny to hear someone act serious about anything on the public internet, on a climbing board, or in the topic spray!

I think what you should do is just say outright: "Our 'policy' on banning people is we'll do it when we want to." I think this is really the truth, isn't it? How can it be anyway else? You're the ones runnig the site! It seems like saying anything else is just trying to sugar coat it! uh, ok. I choose "leave 'em." And fyi: I'm not convinced this isn't just a TROLL on stinx's part, much more sucsessful than the "Bush sux" and "liberals suck" ass-excuse-for-spray thats been around here lately. oh, and here's some porn for ya'

Will Gadd Said: Something makes me think he's not too up on what on order of magnitude is... ten times harder.. I can't believe it.

My eye's aren't good, not to mention I'm retarded. So can someone tell me if the line at midslope on the snow is the crown of a slide? Isn't this pretty steep for such a slide? Anyone have any real information about this?

From reading a post in the Olympics form, I started to think about ribboning obscure routes. Initially, I'd say it has it's place, but maybe should be left out of remote places. Then I realized remote is a relative term, and decided in respect of others, it just shouldn't be out there. Sucks though, cause it seems some sort of marking has really helped in past several times.

Obviously it's not useful as a guidebook, but http://www.climbingjtree.com has some good pictures...

And it's here in spray. multipitch, trad, 5.8/5.9. Looks classic. The rest of the beta is here

Climb: Colorado!? WTF?!-Indian Peaks Wilderness Date of Climb: 2/13/2004 Trip Report: Friday i didn't have any classes. Went up to indian peaks and dinked around. I wanted to check out these "peaks" for a potential ski/climb the next day. It was a gorgeous day and to be out in the sun and breathing hard! The funny thing is (yeah, real haha-like) is that thursday's lecture was about orthographic inertial gravity waves. The next day we made a slight change plans. My friend wanted to check this place out, but I was a little nervous about the avy forcast. We went up with the agrement of a no-haggle turn-around (sounds like the John Elway "No Haggle Low Prices". How does a multi-superbowl winner become a car salesaman? Weird.) Anyways, I watched the snow and terrain and felt fine. I don't like messing with avalanche danger. We skinned up onto the shoulder of Skyskraper peak and were blasted! with serious winds. THis was right on the divide and really felt the force! We quickly ditched the skins and hit it. Found this from the way up. Got back to the creek and trail, kicked for about 20, skated for another 20, had a sip of warm coffee at the car, and finished up a memorable day in the mountains. I'm not a crazy skier, but this still kicked ass.

I thumbed the leavenworth section of the Rcok Climbing Washington and picked out (most of) the 5.9 crack/face climbing typical of the pitch in question (ok, I'm GOING to do this and I may have to relax some perameters...) -Poison Ivcy Crack. Same. -Black Sheets of Rain. Ok, this is obviously not a traversing crack climb, but it is at least worth pointing out BSoR is much harder and WAY scarier! So this one counnts as Harder. -Deception. Shorter and no harder, and no real gear issues. I'd say the same. -Orbit. Just a bit harder climbing (just a tiny amount) and similar amuunts of it. The Same. _lightning Crack at peshastin. OK, this ones 5.8, but I think the little roof thing one the first pitch is much more scary and nervy than OS. So Like Black sheets of rain, Harder. So what's this add up to? (looking at this list, I want to say "not much") ANyways, Considering Lightning crack was thre only crack climb I could think of that was comperably graded and harder, and that climb is definately one-move-wonder material, AND, I seem to find steeper climbs less problematic than my peers. SO I's say OS is grade just fine. Now, squamish. I've got a sheet of paper listing most of my squamish climbs. Again, only the similar climbs (mostly, not sport or slabs...) -Mushroom. Harder. -A cream of White Mice. Harder. Just a bit. -Lybia sucks. Shorter, same, maybe just a bnit harder. Same. -Clandestine Affair Harder. -Penny Lane. Same. Maybe a just a bit easier. -JHoes Crack. Harder. So, 1. The squamish soft grades... I'd still have to say I think squamish is soft, but that's not what these examples say (of course, for a more statisticly powerful test, we need more than one L'worth climb. 2. I feel combining the result that squam 5.9's are generally harder than OS and that squam 5.9's seem "soft" to me, I'd say OS is overrated, that is, easier than it's rated.

I think it's safe to say that the recently developed potential for SERIOUS rockfall makes this climb no longer "the best climb of the grade in the valley."

From a technical standpoint this is explained by conservation of angular momentum, or for you meterioogogists out there, conservation of vorticity

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I was told by a "knowledgable sales person" that these new lightweight bags should be kept away from waterproof breathable treatments because the W/B agent will eventually get to the down and be (very efficiently) wicked away into the down, where it decreases the loft of your sleeping bag. Seem reasonable to me, but I sure can't say I've ever seen this or have any proof what so ever. I just realized your post isn't really specific to lightweight bags, but I guess the above would apply to warm bags too.

I very vividly remember driving back from shuksan late and swerving when I mistook one of the road stipes for a jack rabbit. It totally looked like a rabit! Night driving+tired=crazy

Skaha about five years ago: I just led a 5.8(?) to the right of.... shit. I led some skaha 5.8, anchored myself, got off belay, set up a rap, and had just started down when my partner yelled "What are you doing!?!" I responded with "rapping. what's it look like?" (or something equally indignant) Then she pointed out I had only ten feet or so of rope on one side of my rap setup. Somehow I'd fucked up it up and was just about to take a 40 footer backwards shit-your-pants style. What a wakeup! The thing that strikes me about the whole thing is how it's sickening how close I came... nothing but dumb luck (and my partner's watching!) kept me from... spat city. yuck.

My father took this picture, but I'll post it 'cause he's too un-teched. This one I did take. San Cristobal, Chiapas MX