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http://stovecollector.tripod.com/index.htm

I cant't say this sends me into the pins/no pins camp; it's just a thought. Consider the damage done by placing pins excluding the damage to the rock. I think many would say pitons (like bolts), reduce the value of a piece of rock as a climbing resource. A similar "damage" is more and more people visitng a location and reducing the solitude. (I'm not saying anything about the mountaineers here...) People (jusifiably) remove the pins to restore (or partially) the adventure of a climb. But this does the physical damage. Now a common responce to the overcrowding thing is "people need to explore and go find a new place w/ solitude." It's intitable that more and more people will climb, and if you want soitude, you're going to have to work for it (or snipe mounties...) The solution could also be applied to the piton situation. Maybe less so than crowding, but there will be times when someone doing the right thing (or at least doing a frickin' close job) places a pin. So in order to preserve the nature of the rock, adventure seekers find a new location (and proably some solitude at that. Obviously there are some serious problems with this argument when taken literally. And as I said above, I'm not saying this is a strong enough argument to justify abandoning ehtics (and crags) left and right. Just something to think about. (I'd also like to come clean now as a show of good intentions. I have at times cut switchbacks, made fires where I wasn't supposed to, hacked at a tree with an axe, pissed in a stream, and sinfully wished for a bolt on a run out slab climb. I ask forgivenss. Amen)

I've participated in projects long-lining bricks into Entiat trails. We'd send a mission plan in and the Navy would send back the status of that particular training route for our particular time slot. Otherwise, they keep pretty quiet about it. low fast jets+thin long wires= well, remeber italy?

Funny story (I thought...) I grew up in the sticks near wenatchee. One spring some dipshit (well, he didn't know any better) from Malaga (Wenatchee-ites should be catching on about now...) walked up to our door and essentially said "I was driving up that road and got my truck stuck. Can you help me pull it out?" Now this road is maintained at minimum standards for light logging traffic and sounds to be one of these "soft bed" road. And this particular road is super clay-like (=slikc as shit (literally)) when wet. So we told this guy "look, the trucks stuck up to it.s axes in thick clay mud. You're just going to have to leave it until things dry up some or you're going to ruin the road! Sorry." THe guy leaves ( I thin we gave him ride to the Malaga store!). Three days later the guy comes to our house again. This time it's "Yeah, I was trying to pull my truck out with my bosses truck, and , uh, like, it got stuck too. Can I use your phone?" A week later (it had dired up quite a bit!) a wrecker went up the road, pulling the guys original truck and the dude driving his bosses. It ened up (Malaga store "gossip") the guy pulled something out of wheack on his front end and couldn't drive it! Ha haha ha ha! One word: Malaga!

and cars... While I'm not annoyed by Mr. Natural personally, the image that comes to mind when I read his posts grates. I went to WWU, now I'm in boulder (worse!) and both share a population of early twenties, middle class pseudo-itellectuals whos rhetoric reflects their ignorance. Again, nothing personal Mr. Natural And yeah, what CVS and cbs said....

maybe these people khow: http://www.chiwawafanclub.com/

http://www.gdargaud.net/Climbing/Ecuador.html http://www.gdargaud.net/Climbing/Peru.html

While it might be sacrificing fucntion for value, there are some pretty good deals on ebay for brand name, low temp bags. I saw a Marmot... it was there -40 down bag for something like $180! Pretty god deal... So if you're willing to sacrifice what you exactly want for a super good deal, check out ebay.

I'm sure you've heard these two, but they seemed to be the key to my elbow/wrist problems: 1. Take time off. I tried to decrease how much I was bouldering/gyming, but it didn't do any good until I just stopped climbing for a couple of weeks. (I think the thing is that once your on the wall/rock, it's just too hard to hold back!) 2. Ice. I'm sold on icing. For three days I iced once/day in the evening. No problem immediately afterwards.

Is it that boulder that's on the east side of 32nd? I seem to rememeber the rock having been blasted away at for the version of the freeway that came before the freeway. TNT rock? Dynamite rock?

You're talking duffle bag at those wieghts and loads....

Here's my logic on that one: I buy spectra 11/19 or what ever it is to replace the 1" option. I pay money and I save how much weight? Not much. At least less than a short set of stoppers. I've left gear only two or three times in 10 years. To have carried around a handful of nuts that MIGHT have fit.... I'll just leave regulars and replace them!

Sarcasm, I assume. Ok, how about this.

One of three routes i've got scanned... easy

Out of curiosity, is this the crack on the northwest side of fragrance lake? How about some more info (I'm planning a road trip to Bellingham for the sweet climbing this spring! Screw J-tree! )

my bad, my bad. The woman's out of town and all these posts from a burly climber click named Donna just got the "d" in my head. Sorry Mr. Dan

Dylan: Have you been to Thailand? If so, send me a PM or email me. dave

I just think it's really funny. I don't have much new to say about the whole thing, but, come on now, "Donna TopStep"? It too funny! And I noticed in the related Dana's Dreadful Direct, many a post has been deleted. hmmm.. Change your mind? (I know I have!) And since I mentioned it... Dana's Dreadful Direct Restored Personally, I think it's better than the "Muir on Sunday..." And if this whole thing needs to be moved into spray, I say go at it. Remember, it's funny.

OK I'm retarded. Someone explain the "sorry about Dresden" thing... thanks

OK I'm retarded. Someone explain the "sorry about Dresden" thing... thanks

I'm looking around cc.com for some good anti-bolt shit. Seriously. I'm in CO and the bolt scene here is ridiculous! Try this one... http://www.climbingboulder.com/rock/db/shelf_road/cactus_cliff/crynoid_corner.html So I remembered all that went down with dana's dreadful direct, did a search, and came up with this. I read through tthe post and it just made me laugh laugh laugh. I love this place! (in retrospect, I can't believe the shit that comes out of my mouth!) So ya'll should read through this for a good ol' fashion cc.com sprayfest! As a side note, CO does have a serious bolt problem. Sport climbing's the norm around here and WA kicks CO ass when it comes to trad climbs.

I'm looking for a backapck in the 4000-5000 range. I've got a lowe contour 4 and it's just way too big! I've also got a "crag" pack that carries a rack, rope, crampons, and enough for a miserable night out, but go more than two days and it's back to monster pack. I'm 6'2" and long torso'ed for my size. Anybody got an old pack they'd like to sell? Anybody want to buy a contour 4? They're great, especialy for those 2-3 day trips. grouchous_rex@yahoo.com

Wait. Maybe I mis-spoke. I didn't mean to say the tower was safe to climb or that it should or shouldn't have been bolted. I'm just saying we should leave that place alone, no bolting and no tower-pushing-over. Hands off! I'd say if someone is [blank] enough to climb on the tower, they can go for a ride. Just like if someone is [blank] enough to climb a climb that's run out w/o bolts. More power to them!